Old character, newest version. Trying to nail down her build.


Advice


My tiefling gish was my very first 3.0 character, and I have maintained her in one form or another over the years and through each edition, but there has never been a class or combination of classes that quite suited what I wanted until now. The magus class fits my mental image perfectly, particularly the cabalist 3rd party archetype.

That little intro aside, let me get into the details. She'll be level 7, cabalist magus, and I want to go into the Dragon Disciple prestige class. Both GMs have agreed to allow the cabalist to have access to bloodlines at level 1 rather than waiting until level 7. Specifically, I need advice on feats, whether DD is worth it, and if not, which bloodline to choose instead of draconic. This character is constantly in melee, and not at all shy about 2-handing a weapon and forgetting about spellcasting if the situation calls for it. I'd also like to focus on a weapon that can benefit from 2-handing, as well as being usable in one hand for casting purposes. Over the years, this has meant EWP Bastard Sword most of the time, and probably will remain that way. With that in mind, Dervish Dance builds are out, and I'm not looking for the usual Dragon Disciple focused on natural attacks; DD was for cool-factor, stat and armor boosts, and abilities, but if a bloodline can do better I'll skip it.

Stats are rolled using 4d6 and dropping the lowest die, so pretty high, and thus optimization isn't what I'm looking for here, more like effective and versatile. They can be rearranged, but not rerolled.
Str 16
Dex 17 (including +2 from race)
Con 14
Int 18 (including +2 from race)
Wis 12
Cha 12 (including -2 from race)

Despite how effective it is, I don't like to just spellstrike Shocking Grasp all day, and I like to use my spells for versatility. It's also worth noting that my GMs have disallowed Zorro-ing my way to free attacks through Arcane Mark+Spellstrike.

Sorry if I meander or ramble a bit; I'm writing this with a monstrous headache and it's a little difficult to concentrate. Let me know if I was unclear, or if there is any further information you'd like. Any help would be appreciated.


First off, you are aware there is more than one Tiefling race correct?
Pathfinder 25 introduced variable race tieflings based on their particular fiendish ancestory
Fiendish Heritage.
Might be something to consider as it seems that the tieflings normal bonuses don't work with your concept much as you would like them to.

DD grants some spectacular bonuses if you happen to be a transformation focused combat Sorc.
You are not.
Spell recall and improved spell recall along with access to increased armor proficiency will make you much better at killing things as a human combatant. Make sure to not invest a great deal into your armor till higher levels as the level based armor proficiencies will mean your old set gets rendered moot regularly.
This is saying nothing of the power boost that more Magus arcana and Arcane pool points will give you.

Grab the Orc blood line for morale boosting your allies (or yourself if you can swing SLA spell combat with your GM.
Natural armor boosts.
level based STR boosts starting at L9.
and L15 ability of being able to get a +6 size bonus from becoming large for 1minute/ Char level basically means you can squish folks every combat you will reasonably get into during the day.
In addition the base bloodline power adds +1 damage per Dice rolled on all attack spells.

Str based using a Scimitar will save you a feat, as the weapon is a one handed blade just like a longsword and you suffer no problems using it in two hands. Crit range of 18-20x2 is not bad either.
Folks will call out the Falcata as the best 1hnd melee weapon in pathfinder damage wise with 1d8 19-20 x3 crit.
Bastard sword will work but the difference between a d8 and a d10 damage wise works out to about 1 point, not really worth the feat unless you've already got your heart set on the weapon.


Okay, stats advice, I would swap your Wis and Cha (unless you want an above average Cha for RP reasons) because +1 to your Will save is going to be more useful than bonuses to face skills, in general. Everything else looks good.

For a weapon, I would very strongly suggest something with an 18-20 crit range. Scimitar is the usual choice, I prefer katana. You can use either in two hands to benefit from high strength and Power Attack. The bastard sword will work fine, though. The reason for this is that your spellstrike spells use your weapon's crit range, which is a huge deal when you're going nova with shocking grasp. Yeah, I know you don't want to do it all day but there will be times you want to do it for dramatic damaging effect. But all told, Bastard Sword will work fine.

As to the Dragon Disciple, I'm not sure how good it would be with the Magus. Every DD build I've ever made was a Sorcerer / Monk or Barbarian hybrid. Generally, Magus is a class you want to stick with for your whole career. I would recommend the Abyssal bloodline as an alternate ; the eventual +6 Str bonus you get from that is just awesome. There are also wings, too, it's totally win. Plus, you're a tiefling... it fits right?

For feats I strongly recommend Power Attack, Arcane Strike, and Weapon Focus. Since you're a spontaneous caster, metamagic gets a bit dicey, but obviously Quicken Spell is going to be worth it eventually. Intensified Spell is good for shocking grasp and fireball. Big Game Hunter is also a solid feat to take eventually. About level 9. For your arcana, Arcane Accuracy, Empowered Magic, and Maximized Magic are awesome, as is Spell Blending, which will greatly bump up your versatility letting you pick up spells outside of the magus list.

Well, I hope this has helped some. Post a possible build and we can go through it and refine it!


I've definitely looked long and hard at the Abyssal bloodline, as the theme fits and +6 inherent bonus to strength is both amazing and essentially impossible to get otherwise. The drawback is that the arcana and one of the bloodline abilities are nearly useless on this character, but that may be worth it. So, the Abyssal bloodline would net me +6 strength, improved resistances, immunity to electricity and poison, and telepathy. It actually doesn't have wings; I thought it did as well.

DD gets me +4 str, +2 con, and +2 int (my casting stat), as well as natural armor, a breath weapon, blindsense, wings, form of the dragon I and II(which I'd never otherwise get, but don't care that much about) and dragon resistances and immunities, at the cost of a few caster levels I'm not that concerned about and delayed access to some magus class features, the most concerning of which is improved spell recall. I'd also get +1 to damage on spells that matched my energy type, which I guess could add up over time if I specialized.

I'm aware of the alternate heritages, but there isn't one that boosts strength and intelligence. Daemon-Spawn takes a hit to wisdom instead of charisma, but wisdom is more important to me than charisma.


I'm going to have to say DD is a poor choice for this character. Anytime you can quantify a PrC's "pros" to anything you can buy items to get, or cast spells to gain... It is a bad trade if it doesn't help you be spectacular in some way.

From the little bit you've said about the character:
I would strongly suggest a hexcrafter magus. Your desire to be in melee and swinging a weapon 2h'ed fits well with ability to pop a hex when you can't do a full attack or are at range to save some of your spells. Drop an Evil Eye on the opponent (to debuff AC, attack rolls or saves) or a Slumber (with a better chance to land due to Evil Eye). Cackle to keep it going until you can close, it not only helps you but the rest of the party as well.

The debuff to AC is worth +4 to STR (for to hit purposes), the -2 to hit is significantly better than +2 CON in most cases (no damage > more HP), the save debuff is better than +2 INT (-2 saves is like a +4 INT for the DC). Natural armor can be gained via spell or item. Breath weapon is the same. Wings the same (or hex). Blindsense the same.

Look at this guide (particularly the Melee Transmorgifist) Hexcrafter Guide. Tweak it to your liking.

If 3PP are allowed, take a look at the Soulknife and/or Aegis (possibly into Metaforge). No casting to the Soulknife, the Aegis can get a little bit of "casting" via stored power stones (essentially scrolls). The Metaforge is a PrC that combines both of them. Both classes excel at being versatile however, which seems to be what you are looking for.


The internet is not very clear about the cabalist AT. Do you use int as casting class or do you use cha like the bard and the spontanious casters often do?
If cha is casting stat you will need to be careful with your spells as your DC will suck.
If int then i think you look good.
But i think the Magus is kinda better with prepared casting.


A pair of thoughts: if you like the concept, hexcrafter is stackable with cabalist. Give it a look. For the other things, I don't understand what character concept you're trying to achieve. Can you explain more?


Take a look at the Cabalist/DD that I have design with one of my players. He wanted to be more martial focused than the sorcerer route and be natural attack user like you want. Bear in mind that I have houseruled that he casts based on charisma and convert the arcanas like arcane accuracy to be cha-based so that he can take advantage of spontaneous metafocus and pull tricks like Shocking grasp + Intensify spell and Frostbite + Rime spell like the ordinary magus can.

Suli Cabalist Elemental Knight Magus 12 / Dragon Disciple 8

STATS:

STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 16

Traits: Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Outlander: Lore Seeker

1 Magus Rime Spell
2 Magus
3 Magus Spontaneous Metafocus (Frostbite), Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
4 Magus Incremental Elemental Assault
5 Magus Additional Traits: (Metamagic Master: Shocking Grasp, Reactionary), Enforcer
6 Magus Arcana: Spell Shield
7 Magus Intensify Spell
8 Dragon Disciple
9 Dragon Disciple Spontaneous Metafocus (Shocking Grasp), Power Attack
10 Dragon Disciple
11 Dragon Disciple Elemental Spell, Improved Initiative
12 Magus
13 Magus Extra Arcana: Accurate Strikes, Arcana: Hasted Assault
14 Dragon Disciple
15 Dragon Disciple Eldrich Claws
16 Dragon Disciple
17 Dragon Disciple Spell Perfection: Cone of Cold, Quicken Spell
18 Magus
19 Magus Dazing Spell, Extra Arcana: Spell Blending (Contingency)
20 Magus Arcana: Spell Blending (Permanency)

He chooses Dragonic (Silver) dragon


If I remember correctly, the writer for the cabalist archetype said that it remained an int-based caster in a forum post somewhere, but I could be wrong. Regardless,my DMs would handwave that issue.

I'm actually more and more interested in hexcrafter the more I look at it. Unfortunately, cabalist is pretty much locked in, so no psionics or hexcrafter, although I will certainly try to persuade them to let me use hexcrafter. Basically, at this point I can go straight cabalist or enter a prestige class that I qualify for. The primary DM for this character is my fiance; I'll try to bribe her with something.

I guess the urge for DD is leftover from previous editions (not that it was any good), and I'm probably just wanting PrCs to be worth something. Wishful thinking. I've mostly squashed that idea, but apparently I had a relapse with this old character.

For what it's worth, in our games there is almost never time to buff up before battle, and it is difficult to acquire specific magic items. One DM is stingy with gold, but generous with items (that she chooses), and the other is stingy with both. This is part of the reason I was going for built-in abilities like the DD has, especially wings, but hexcrafter would handle that with the flight hex.

This means that I'm really down to bloodline choice. I tried looking at the bloodline guide for sorcerers, but it is, of course, written for sorcerers and not magi.


Hexcrafter is perfectly compatible with the Cabalist archetype. You should not go Dragon Disciple if you choose it though, hexes are too good to halt their progression. The best bloodline is probably the orc bloodline, giving you both an awesome arcana for blasting and great martial benefits. If you can combine it with the trait Optimistic Gambler all the better, you can now use Touch of Rage on yourself. You should most possibly be able to combine the powers with the feat quicken spell-like ability too.

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