If alchemists aren't considered to be spellcasters for the purposes of getting item creation feats, how are items created such as a 'wand of alchemical allocation' where you need to be able to be high enough level to make the wand, and the extract itself?
*BUMP*
Just trying to get this figured out for the purpose of obtaining these items.
I'm not certain wands of alchemical extracts exist, since Alchemist exclusive extracts may not actually be spells (thus not valid for crafting wands).
If they did exist, they would most likely be crafted by Wizards taking the -5 penalty for not having access to the spell.
Well - how are Boro Beads made? Actually I guess they are made by an alchemist who multi-classed into a wizard :P
I know there was a post from one of the designers saying they could make magic items on their own... But I can't find it.
Actually I'm pretty positive that the devs made statements to the effect that alchemist do not count as having any sort of caster level from being an alchemist, so they would not qualify for the crafting feats without multiclassing or taking the master craftsman feat first and then craft wondrous items, etc.
Or having spell like abilities.
Yeah, there are no wands of alchemist extracts because extracts aren't spells. And as a side note, you need to have access to a spell to craft a spell-completion or spell-trigger item. Taking a -5 on your spellcraft check doesn't cut it.
In the game I play in, we've house-ruled that alchemist caster levels qualify them for magic item crafting feats. Balance wise, there's not any reason to disallow it. Thematically, it's not the best fit for all magic items, but it works.
Amusingly, spell-like abilities do count. Ain't life grand?
I was using the wand as an example, but Boro beads are actually one of the items in question that I'm really curious about (I just happened to forget what they were called).
Sticking to the RAW, how would one make these? Would a wizard with 'craft wondrous item' make it with a -5 penalty?
Boro beads (and preserving flasks) require being able to use the appropriate-level extract.
By RAW To craft a level 6 boro bead requires CL 19 (or higher) character; 16 levels of alchemist plus 3 levels of a spellcaster.
Boro beads —just like a few other items— do not require any spells to be cast to create.
I somewhat doubt that wands of alchemical allocation were intended to be buyable or craftable, and it's debatable that they would exist.
Craft wand says that it can make a wand for any spell; by RAW alchemical allocation isn't a spell, but rather an alchemist extract.
That said, one could perhaps claim that RAI intends to mean all "spell-like" abilities that use up level-based slots. If alchemist extracts weren't considered spells, I would think there could be a whole lot of other issues with respect to other rules regarding magical effects and abilities that intend to include extracts but explicitly don't.
Ignoring that part, as per the other RAW(per FAQ) obstacle, the character would need to be at least a level 5 spellcaster and level 4 alchemist.
Houserule zone:
Personally I'd be fine with calling alchemists spellcasters and alchemist-extracts spells, but disallow alchemist-only spells to be used in crafting items (without specific exceptions by request). I don't see any big deal with it at all, and you shouldn't let the rules bog down you and your friends' games ESPECIALLY when it comes to reasonable/fair claims and/or common-sense.
Seriously Master Craftsman + Craft Wondrous Item (or other appropriate crafting feat) lets you craft without a caster level. For every spell you can't supply where required you add +5 to the Spell craft DC (which can be made instead with your craft skill if you have Master Craftsman).
Boro Bead is a Wondrous item, you have Master Craftsman and Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft(Alchemy) skill, and are a 16th level alchemist. You craft the item. Done.
No house rules, no works around, pure legal RAW.
Oh yeah I forgot to include the master craftsman option as well.
But I think it's stupid to have to take a feat for what's essentially a caster to actually count as a caster for crafting something, so my point still rests.
Also, as far as I know, not needing to cast the spell only applies for items which are not consumable, so wands, scrolls, and I think consumable wondrous items as well all still couldn't be craft able with Master Craftsman without still casting the spell.
By simply allowing alchemists to be a spell caster for purposes of crafting allows them to make stuff like wands of cure light wounds or shield.
Quote: In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. Good call on that Joesi.
My question is however, since it has been stated that the alchemist isn't a spellcaster, would the alchemists extracts count as meeting the spell prereqs. Without looking into it further, my first thought is no.
Strict interpretation of RAW I would say no. Thematically I think I would make sense to allow it for any Wonderous Item that is a magical version of a mundane alchemical item - dusts, salves, glues, solvents, etc, or any that are specifically called out as alchemical or needing alchemist levels to be created. And if nothing else, extracts should be allowed to qualify for the spell components of elixirs.
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