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Other than the obvious things (high strength, be Gargantuan, have Improved Overrun/whatever), what can I do to increase my character's Combat Maneuver Bonus? I want to be able to regularly succeed at CMB rolls, and I'm not sure if there's an easy way to just boost CMB other than being a larger size category and taking the feats related to my CMB flavor of choice. Are there any weapons/items that give flat CMB bonuses? How about feats?
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When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
High BAB helps. The feats help. There are traits that can help. Do you have a specific Combat Maneuver in mind?
If you want a character mostly focused on CMB/CMD, the Lore Warden is a great choice.
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I'm planning to use a combination of two. Overrun, and the "Tiger Stance" charge/pounce ability's "combat maneuver check" from the Tengu Swordmaster rogue archetype.
The basic idea is to charge through enemies and full attack them from behind (essentially, the anime cliche of a swordsman slicing through his foe, sheathing his blade, and then having his opponent suddenly suffer the injuries all at once).
So, anything that gives a bonus to "attack rolls" also benefits CMB?
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Except that enchanted weapons would have to be used as part of the attack to get the full benefit- Disarm, Sunder, or Trip
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We're discussing that very issue over here and I've come to the conclusion that, RAW, you can if you have Pounce.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q8ma?Overrunning-and-Attacking#11
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Given that a charge requires you to move to the closet square from which you can attack, I think you could either over-run OR pounce, but not both. if you choose to over-run, you would be ending your action in a square that was not the closest from which you could attack, thus it would not be a charge- and thus you would not be able to pounce.
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Given that a charge requires you to move to the closet square from which you can attack, I think you could either over-run OR pounce, but not both. if you choose to over-run, you would be ending your action in a square that was not the closest from which you could attack, thus it would not be a charge- and thus you would not be able to pounce.
That's much more intelligent of a response than I've gotten from anyone else on the issue, but since you're clearly charging (how else did I just double-move and then overrun someone), I'm not sure it's accurate. It's a reasonable thing for a GM to decide on, but... RAW doesn't make that distinction. Overrun changes the nature of the charge action - allowing you to end the charge in a square other than the normally-allowed charge square.
EDIT:Furthermore, the charge rules say nothing about the charge attack being "cancelled" or "negated" if somehow your charge is altered or interrupted. It just says "you must end in front of their square" and "you get an attack after your movement." Overrun modifies this, allowing you to pass through their square as part of your charge.
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But not the space from which the standard action (attack/combat manuever) aspect of the special full round action (charge) comes into play. If you had pounce and wanted to sunder with each of your attacks at the end of a charge, I think that would be fine, but RAW your charge movement must end at the square closest to the point of origin from which you could attack the bad guy. Further, on a charge, it says you must move before, not after, your attack, so once you make a roll (CMB or Attack), you're staying in that square.
Except that Overrun changes this, adding an "extra" standard action into the full-round action (do NOT ask me how this is possible, it just says that), and lets you move through the target as part of your charge.
While I agree with you that it makes sense that an Overrun would replace the attack, that's essentially a house rule (and perhaps a good one).
Overrun does not say that it replaces the attack roll portion of the Charge action. Therefore, Overrun does not replace the attack roll portion of the Charge action if you are simply looking at the RAW (which I am, for the purposes of mere rules analysis).
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Unless of course we've all been doing it wrong and if at the end of a charge I can over-run the person AND get an attack on the person either from behind or now flanked, and even if I fail the over-run and the charge stops I still get a free attack.
That's precisely what I think the rules are saying. Which is why they really should errata or FAQ this, to clear up what is a poorly-worded ability (particularly the bit about a standard action being taken during a full-round action).
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Charges must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If you are anywhere else, how are you gaining the benefits of the charge?Charges must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent unless you are using the overrun combat maneuver.
Where does it say that in the RAW?
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Where does it say that in the RAW?Charges must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If you are anywhere else, how are you gaining the benefits of the charge?Charges must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent unless you are using the overrun combat maneuver.
Here:
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. If your overrun attempt fails, you stop in the space directly in front of the opponent, or the nearest open space in front of the creature if there are other creatures occupying that space.
When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal. If your maneuver is successful, you move through the target's space. If your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target's space and the target is knocked prone. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has.
Emphasis mine.
Charge
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Movement During a Charge
You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge.
If you don't have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can't charge that opponent.
You can't take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.
Attacking on a Charge
After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver attack rolls made to bull rush an opponent.
Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.
Emphasis Mine.
So, the rules say when you charge, you move, then attack, as a full-round action. Simple enough.
The rules also say you may Overrun as a standard action taken during a charge. This is normally impossible (since you can't take a full-round action and a standard action during the same round), but the rules say you can do it.
You follow the rules for charging, and you follow the rules for overrunning. Nowhere does it say that overrunning an opponent removes components from or modifies the effects of the charge action other than to state that you move through your opponent's square and end up on the far side. At which point, as per the charge action, which says this:
After moving, you may make a single melee attack.
Over run is supposed to be you charge through a target, while charging somebody else. At least RAI thats how I see it. Its basically to allow you to charge an enemy, behind another enemy. I would not allow you to Overrun a character and also "turn around" and count that as a charge attack against them. RAW may be a little unclear on it, but when I imagine this manuever it just doesn't make sense. I just don't think RAI is that you end target of your charge and a target for overrun can be the same. You should just charge the first target and not be allowed to overrun.
Also
as part of your charge
to me implies that the overrun target isn't the target of your charge. The overrun and charge are two separate things, you just happen to be allowed to perform an overrun while charging someone else.
In regards to your initial question about boosting CMB, you will need things that boost your general CMB. Weapon enhancement bonuses will not at all help you perform Overrun or Tiger Stance maneuvers, nor anything else that applies to normal weapon rolls since neither of the maneuvers involve weapons.
Since you are playing a rogue you will probably want agile maneuvers to replace your Strength bonus to CMB with Dex bonus to CMB.
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Overrun is a "standard action" taken as part of the charge. So you're saying that when charging, you get 2 move actions (moving twice your move speed or moving your speed and drawing your weapon) and two standard actions (a "free" standard as you describe the over-run, and the single attack at the end)?
Overrun is performed as a standard action as "part of" (read as "during", which you normally can only move then take a standard or take a standard the move) a move or as part of a charge.
So you can move, overrun, continue moving with as much movement as you're normally allowed (single movement only).
Or you could decide you want to charge someone, but there is someone standing in the way. You decide you to try to charge them, attempting to overrun the person in your way to get to them. Per the rules for charge you're allowed to move up to double your normal movement speed, and you will get an attack at the end of you charge.
Of course, I also noticed in the link morphling posted about overrun and attacking that someone posted another link about the feat charge through which supposedly allows you to do the 2nd thing I've described, but other people mention that the normal interpretation of the overrun feat is exactly as I described and is an issue of a feat changing how everyone thought something worked.
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Overrun is a "standard action" taken as part of the charge. So you're saying that when charging, you get 2 move actions (moving twice your move speed or moving your speed and drawing your weapon) and two standard actions (a "free" standard as you describe the over-run, and the single attack at the end)?
Not at all.
There's a full-round action (charge) and a standard action (overrun).
The full-round action kind of looks like two moves and a standard (move double speed, make an attack roll), but it's one single action.
Of course, I also noticed in the link morphling posted about overrun and attacking that someone posted another link about the feat charge through which supposedly allows you to do the 2nd thing I've described, but other people mention that the normal interpretation of the overrun feat is exactly as I described and is an issue of a feat changing how everyone thought something worked.
Just note, you are not "everyone." You're certainly correct that Overrun is a poorly-worded combat maneuver, though. The intent is unclear from the writing.
However... what if there is only one opponent on the field? Are you suddenly physically incapable of charge-overrunning them? What is it about having a second foe behind them that magically enables you to travel farther during your overrun attempt (double move instead of a move action) than you otherwise would have? If you're unable to overrun a single opponent during a charge, this creates a strange discrepancy in the rules, where having an ally standing ten feet behind you allows foes to move toward/through you quicker.
Just note, you are not "everyone." You're certainly correct that Overrun is a poorly-worded combat maneuver, though. The intent is unclear from the writing.
I know I am not everyone, but if you read the thread you linked, and then the thread James Risner linked, there are several people who talk about how the feat Charge Through turned something that most people thought was an inherent feature of the manuever into a feat only option. Much like the feat Strike Back. I did use hyperbole when I said everyone, but I was really just using it to say "many people noted that this was something they thought could be done with the original wording of the Overrun maneuver".
However... what if there is only one opponent on the field? Are you suddenly physically incapable of charge-overrunning them? What is it about having a second foe behind them that magically enables you to travel farther during your overrun attempt (double move instead of a move action) than you otherwise would have? If you're unable to overrun a single opponent during a charge, this creates a strange discrepancy in the rules, where having an ally standing ten feet behind you allows foes to move toward/through you quicker.
I would say you are very much capable of charging them, but not double moving and over running them. Why do the rules have this weird abstraction? Because the rules don't always make good sense nor are they always consistent.
I think the best way to handle it (in terms of changing the rules) is to say you can make an overrun manuever as a full round action moving up to your normal movement speed to overrun an enemy. Then with the feat charge through you can move up to double movement speed with the restrictions of a normal charge except you can attempt to overrun an enemy while charging at another enemy.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pjkp?Overrun-and-a-Charge#1
The above thread a person seems to indicates that on a Overrun charge you get to move double distance, but you exchange the attack you would normally get for a overrun attempt against that person. In which case you would move, overrun the target of your charge instead of attack, and then could continue moving past them up to double your movement speed. This seems to be a very logical interpretation with the existence of the Charge Through feat, which would allow you to then make a overrun attempt as a free action as part of a charge full round action against someone between you and the target of your charge.
I'm not sure how this would interact with an ability that provides pounce when you charge overrun someone without charge through. I think the answer is you trade away all your attacks to perform the overrun maneuver.
I agree with you completely that as written the rules seem contradictory and aren't very clear on how things are intended to work.
Edit: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lh0s?Overrun-and-Charge#19
Has more people suggesting that the overrun attempt is in place of the normal attack that you would receive on a charge.