Swordmaster / Scout Charging Sneak Attack Question


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

From Swordmaster:

Tiger Trance (Ex): The swordmaster pounces upon her opponents, striking with the ferocity and brute force of a wild tiger. While in this trance, a swordmaster can make a combat maneuver check against an opponent within charge range. If she succeeds, she may charge that opponent and make a full attack against that opponent.

From Scout:

Scout’s Charge: At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.

Question: If I have a BAB over 6, do ALL my charging attacks get sneak attack, or just the 1st?

Shadow Lodge

I would say so.

Reasoning someone would say no:Scouts Charge says her ATTACK (not attackS) deal sneak attack as if target was flat-footed

Reason why I deny this:The SLA prestige class early entry got through, saying semantics like able to cast x level spells v. able to cast x level Spell is meaningless. So by my logic, semantics like attack v. attacks is the same.


I concur. All attacks on the pounce get sneak. ArmouredMonk summed argumentation up nicely.


I looked at it from another direction. With pounce, do all attacks get the +2 from charging? It looks like they do, so to me it makes sense all the attacks would get the other bonuses (like sneak attacks from a scout) from charging as well.

Liberty's Edge

PRD wrote:


Scout's Charge (Ex): At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.

Skirmisher (Ex): At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.

I see it as the skirmisher ability specifically states only the first attack counts as sneak attack. If the scout's charge were to be meant for only the first attack then it should state so.

It could however be that the combination of both classes wasn't expected, but I see it as if you are multi-classing you won't be getting max sneak attack damage at higher levels.


bodhranist wrote:
I looked at it from another direction. With pounce, do all attacks get the +2 from charging? It looks like they do, so to me it makes sense all the attacks would get the other bonuses (like sneak attacks from a scout) from charging as well.

That FAQ only confirms that pounce allows you to make a full-atatck aciton at the end of a charge and anything that could be done as part of a full attack action can be done at the end of pounce charge.

It has never been covered fully whether or not the +2 bonus from charging applies to all atatcks on a pounce, or at least I haven't seen an answer. I lean towards no, you wouldn't get the +2 to all attacks on the first and likewise you wouldn't get the Scouts Charge ability. In fact Skirmisher goes out of the way to specifically tell you that if you can move 10ft and make more than 1 attack per round it still only applies to the first attack. Why would Skirmisher a higher level ability be restricted when Scout Charge is not, they do the same thing, with Skirmisher giving you versatility of not having to charge to treat the enemy as flat-footed. I think, RAI is clear, Scout's Charge will only function on the first attack of a pouncing charge. The Devs obviously didn't foresee somone having both access to pounce and Scout's Charge.


I'd allow it

I would say that the scout's charge applies sneak attack when using the charge action, with the Tiger trance calls out, both with charge range and 'charge' in the lead into the full attack.

same reason I'd let a scout/rogue using the hurling charge feat... charging is his thing.

That being said, i wouldn't be shocked if Claxon turns out to be right if this is ever FAQ'ed


MC Templar wrote:

I'd allow it

I would say that the scout's charge applies sneak attack when using the charge action, with the Tiger trance calls out, both with charge range and 'charge' in the lead into the full attack.

same reason I'd let a scout/rogue using the hurling charge feat... charging is his thing.

That being said, i wouldn't be shocked if Claxon turns out to be right if this is ever FAQ'ed

If this is a real thing it basically means that we will see a huge influx of Tengu Swordmaster Scout Rogues charge pouncing sneak attacking everywhere. And if it were true I could also see Barbarian 10/ Scout X builds to take advantage of such things to always get sneak attack.

Everybody wants a better rogue, and I think we all need to embrace the idea that a better rogue wont have sneak attack or the restrictions that have long been associated with it.

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