
Xathrax |
Hello everyone!
My first post here :) Going to be a bit lengthy.
I know that the concept of making an alchemist/barbarian for a +8 Str using Feral Mutagen is not a new concept, but I really liked the idea so wanted to create my own version of this. I would like to have a good balance between a cool concept and efficiency. This will be 20 point buy and level 8.
Initially I thought it would be really cool to get 2 Vestigial Arms and get more abilities that grant claw attacks for a total of 4 claws, but as far as I understand that doesn't work that way.
The idea of the character is that he is a medicine man in a barbarian tribe, but as he discovers the feral mutagen the tribe rejects him after they see his monstrous form so he is left to fend for himself. He is quite savage so he intimidates opponents by growling, howling(Dazzling Display,Intimidating Prowess) and since I have lots of skill points I can easily max intimidate. Not sure where else to put the points other than Perception. Probably 1 point in Str skills, but not sure what else.
The character will be a half-orc with Sacred Tattoo since that seems to fit the theme pretty well.
I am thinking of Barbarian 2/Alchemist 6
Str 16 + 2 racial
Dex 16 + 2 from level advancement
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 7
Traits:
1. Berserker of the Society
2. Undecided(probably + to a saving throw or initiative)
Feats/abilities:
1st Level(Beastmorph alchemist ) - Weapon Focus(claws)
2nd Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Feral Mutagen(discovery)
3rd Level(barbarian) - Dazzling Display
4th Level(barbarian) - Fiend Totem, Lesser(rage power)
5th Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Intimidating Prowess
6th Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Extend Potion(discovery)
7th Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Combat Reflexes or Toughness
8th Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Spontaneous Healing(discovery)
as an alternative I am thinking Barbarian 2/Lore Warden Fighter 2/Alchemist 4
This would give me 3 free feats and I could go for:
Feats/abilities:
1st Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Weapon Focus(claws)
2nd Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Feral Mutagen(discovery)
3rd Level(barbarian) - Dazzling Display
4th Level(barbarian) - Fiend Totem, Lesser(rage power)
5th Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Intimidating Prowess
6th Level(Beastmorph alchemist) - Extend Potion(discovery)
7th Level(Lore Warden) - Combat Expertise,Improved Trip,Combat Reflexes
8th Level(Lore Warden) - Greater Trip
Now I don't really care much for having higher level extracts since I'll mostly do melee so being able to charge, trip with a massive bonus and make an AoO when they fall/stand up seems REALLY awesome. Lower mutagen duration does suck and not being able to take the wings discovery sucks as well so perhaps someone could comment? I get an extra 1 point of BAB too.
With 4 natural attacks keeping I could easily trip 2 opponents, hit both due to AoO, hit them again with the remaining 2 attacks with them having the -4 AC penalty due to being prone AND smack them again when they are standing up(4 AoO due to Combat Reflexes). With Belt of Giant Strength I will have 28 Str so that's +9, +7 from BaB, +4 from Feats, +1 from Weapon Focus if I trip with claws for a total of +21 to trip not counting cases where I will have enlarge person cast. That should ensure that most stuff will fall even on a fairly low roll. Now I have almost convinced myself that this is the better option :D
Now I have a bunch of rules questions. I did find some topics that talk about this, but I couldn't find a definite answer:
1. Is drinking an extract always a standard action? Reason I'm asking is if I can bypass the full round required for enlarge person. I'm just drinking a vial so there is no full round of casting, right?
2. I want to purchase a caster level 20 potion of Stoneskin and use it with the Alchemical Allocation spell so that I never waste it. This gives me 200 minutes duration + 200 minutes from the Extend Potion discovery letting it last slightly over 6,5 hours. Does this really work that way? 400 minutes of DR/10 absorbing 200 damage as a level 2 spell even with the cost of the potion and it taking 2 standard actions seems insane. But I cannot think of a reason why this wouldn't work. I want to do a similar thing to a potion of Barkskin.
3. I want to use a Vicious Amulet of Mighty Fists. Will the Stoneskin absorb the 1d6 damage dealt to me? If so I'm looking at some monstrous damage. 2x 3d6+9 claws at +17 are probably already making the other melee characters jelly while I also have bite/gore. The self damage kinda fits the savage theme as well. If I get my hands on a +2 Amulet of Mighty fists I'd make it Vicious and Furious.
4. Does Amplify Elixir stack with Extend Potion? My gut says no, but I'm used to seeing a comment that it doesn't stack with X like the Unlife Healer ability of the Undead Lord.
5. Do you require to activate the wings discovery to start flying? I remember our GM ruled that the Witches fly hex would take a standard action to start up, but my understanding is that since the wings aren't natural after you fly for x minutes you get tired and need to rest before flying again.
6. Can anyone think of something cool you could do by taking 2x Vestigial Arm? Other than holding a shield. The idea of having 4 arms is really sweet, but not being able to add natural attacks makes it less awesome. I'd take City-Raised for the Whip proficiency and trip people from 15ft away from time to time if I don't feel like moving. But that doesn't seem worth it.
Ok, I'm done! Thanks for reading if you got this far :D Any suggestions regarding skills, feats, gear that would help optimize or improve the theme would be very welcome.

Dasrak |

1. Is drinking an extract always a standard action? Reason I'm asking is if I can bypass the full round required for enlarge person. I'm just drinking a vial so there is no full round of casting, right?
Yes, this is one of the alchemist's big advantages.
With the infusion discovery, the entire party can cast your spells with a standard action each.
2. I want to purchase a caster level 20 potion of Stoneskin and use it with the Alchemical Allocation spell so that I never waste it. This gives me 200 minutes duration + 200 minutes from the Extend Potion discovery letting it last slightly over 6,5 hours. Does this really work that way?
Yes, it works this way, but this is totally dependent on the GM being very permissive with the item rules.
A potion of stoneskin must be brewed by a summoner (since this is the only class that gets stoneskin at 3rd level or lower) with the brew potion feat. This peculiar crafting combination automatically makes this an extremely rare item and a GM could flatly state that it's not available for purchase. You've also stipulated an absurdly high caster level, so if your GM allows this he's being extremely permissive.
3. I want to use a Vicious Amulet of Mighty Fists. Will the Stoneskin absorb the 1d6 damage dealt to me? If so I'm looking at some monstrous damage. 2x 3d6+9 claws at +17 are probably already making the other melee characters jelly while I also have bite/gore. The self damage kinda fits the savage theme as well. If I get my hands on a +2 Amulet of Mighty fists I'd make it Vicious and Furious.
The damage from a vicious weapon is untyped energy damage; it bypasses DR.
4. Does Amplify Elixir stack with Extend Potion? My gut says no, but I'm used to seeing a comment that it doesn't stack with X like the Unlife Healer ability of the Undead Lord.
Unlife Healer explicitly calls out that it doesn't stack with other abilities. Neither Amplify Elixir nor Extend Potion have these disclaimers, nor are they worded in such a way as to say this implicitly.
Your gut is probably right as far as the RAI go; this is exactly the kind of thing that normally doesn't stack. However, by RAW, there is no reason they shouldn't. Really up to your GM's call.
5. Do you require to activate the wings discovery to start flying? I remember our GM ruled that the Witches fly hex would take a standard action to start up, but my understanding is that since the wings aren't natural after you fly for x minutes you get tired and need to rest before flying again.
There is a clause that states that "unless otherwise noted, a hex is a standard action", so I think that's where your GM's ruling comes from. There is no such clause for alchemist's discoveries.

XMorsX |
Here is an interesting build that may give you ideas.
Two lvls in MoMS monk give you dragon style feats. Take weapon focus (claws) and then feral combat training. Feral mutagen and power attack enemies to death.

XMorsX |
Do you think it's worth it? Multiclassing potentially into a 4th class just to deal a bit more damage? Power attack alone achieves what 2 dragon style feats do + feral combat training.
Every specialization gives diminishing returns. But then again you have only one standard action per round, you cannot do everything. What you do, you must make sure you do it best. That is why the d20 system favors specialists and not jacks of all trades, as long as your answer is relevant in every situation it occurs.
My opinion is that it is totally worth it because I see it from the opposite view: There is nothing that can give so much damage like the dragon style feats + feral combat training other than power attack.
I have also noticed that your build does not have built-in claws. This may potentially handicap you when you run out of feral mutagen. You may want to consider an Oni-Spawn Tiefling with Claw alt. racial trait. If you are lucky on the roll or you have a kind GM you can start with a bite too. Other good alt. rac. features include Prehensile Hair and Vestigial Wings.

Kahn Zordlon |

I would also add a potion of greater magic fang to use with the alchemal allocation. Buy some boro beads if you don't have room for each of your claws and bite. With extend potion discovery, you only need to use it every other day and can get +5 to attack and damage for cost of potion and extract every other day.