(Red Mantis)Assassin / Master Spy build / optimization

[AnachronicRodent]

So my group has decided to do a sort of politicalish backstaby game, and we are told it is starting level is 8, and is at high fantasy point build. This game is a chance for the group to play some classes that normally we cannot. The rest of the group is rather adept at making optimized characters while I usually go for what sounds neat with poor results.

So I have been tempted to make some sort of Red Mantis Assassin / Master Spy. I have tried to find some other similar posts, but at most I have seen go with ranger or ninja as the base. Could someone help me on what one should do to make this a possiblilty and what levelsmshould be what.

Thanks!

[CWheezy]

I think the main issue is that red mantis assassins are super mad. Sawtooth sabres aren't finesse-able, which sucks pretty hard, haha. Range might help this, since you don't need a high dex any more. I tried rogue but I am pretty sure my combat is terrible, and his fascinate was some crappy dc 18 or so, that isn't so hot at level 8

[blackbloodtroll]

Freebooter/Trapper Ranger.

What races are available?

[LoneKnave]

It also doesn't mesh well with master spy; although taking a 1 level dip of each can give you some sneak attack dice quick, so that's something.

If it's a backstabby social campaign thing, you should probably just go with Master spy. You can enter it quite reasonably from any class (though it takes some time). I'd try an Alchemist, personally.

[AnachronicRodent]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Freebooter/Trapper Ranger.

What races are available?

Pretty much anything in the books are being allowed race wise.

[AnachronicRodent]

LoneKnave wrote:

It also doesn't mesh well with master spy; although taking a 1 level dip of each can give you some sneak attack dice quick, so that's something.

If it's a backstabby social campaign thing, you should probably just go with Master spy. You can enter it quite reasonably from any class (though it takes some time). I'd try an Alchemist, personally.

Sadly in our Jade Regent game I had played one, so I would rather avoid playing one again so soon.

[LoneKnave]

A Monk/Master spy would be fun. You could go unarmed anywhere and impersonate anyone while not really losing combat effectiveness (...except from being a monk, ha). Impersonate unarmed old woman and then... unleash the kung-fu!

Ninja probably is still better for sneaky spy work though.

[AnachronicRodent]

LoneKnave wrote:

A Monk/Master spy would be fun. You could go unarmed anywhere and impersonate anyone while not really losing combat effectiveness... (...except from being a monk, ha). Impersonate unarmed old woman and then... unleash the kung-fu!

You could go moreso if you went a Rogue/Monk Catfolk with the catfolk archetype for rogue. D8 sneak attacks on those claws while doing monk stuff.

LoneKnave wrote:

Ninja probably is still better for sneaky spy work though.

At the same time, it seems like a bard might be good as well. I guess it is more a matter of if I want to be supplementing it with spells, or if I want to be able to do sneak attack damage, at the same time Ranger would work given its ability to focus two weapon fighting and that the Red Mantis Assassin often uses two weapons. The downside to that is their weapons are normally two handed (except when having the exotic weapon prof in it, then each one counts as a light weapon for dual wielding.)