Rules question: Oracle of Bones

[Voyd211]

So I'm playing an oracle with the Bones mystery, and I'm curious about one of the revelations.

Raise the Dead.

According to its text, you can create a single skeleton or zombie with HD equal to your own. Thing is, it's completely unspecific about the kind of skeleton/zombie you make. Are you absolutely required to make a human skeleton, as created in the Bestiary, or could you pull, say, an orc skeleton out of the ground to throw at enemies?

[Voyd211]

Blargh, editing limit.

Anyway, I originally posted this in the Society subforum since, well, this is what I'm playing in Society. The main question is: Is this Society-legal?

[R2D2TS]

For PFS, I believe since it is a summoning ability you would only be able to use the stat block versions of the skeleton or zombie in the besitiary.

edit: This would also mean as a Society player you would have to have a copy of the Bestiary (either physical or PDF) to use the creature at a sanctioned game.

[Voyd211]

The thing is, that logic fails to work once you're higher level, since the RtD companion raises its HD as you do.

[R2D2TS]

Most likely as you level you add more HP to the summoned creature. Although, I am not sure if you would advance it via the Monster Advancement rules though. I came across another thread from back in January that did not seem to go anywhere. In the end I may be wrong. It may be you summon a creature and add a template to it. It would be a bit counter to most summoning abilities to have a summon ability that allowed you to pick any base creature to add the template to though.

[Voyd211]

I just thought an orc would be the best 0/1 HD beastie that I could make into a skeleton.

[Mojorat]

You apply the skeleton template to te creature. As long as it meats the hd requirement any creature suitable for a skeleton works.

[Shadowdweller]

The implication as I read it is that you use the base human versions listed in the bestiary, advanced as appropriate for HD. It becomes a reasonable distraction as one levels. As noted above, this is a summoning ability. It doesn't actually raise, use, or consume an existing corpse.

[blahpers]

R2D2TS wrote:

Most likely as you level you add more HP to the summoned creature. Although, I am not sure if you would advance it via the Monster Advancement rules though. I came across another thread from back in January that did not seem to go anywhere. In the end I may be wrong. It may be you summon a creature and add a template to it. It would be a bit counter to most summoning abilities to have a summon ability that allowed you to pick any base creature to add the template to though.

I would hope that you at least advances it's BAB and such. A skeleton with 10 HD and no chance of even tripping a level-appropriate enemy is a pretty useless skeleton.

[R2D2TS]

@Voyd211 it appears you may need to reword and resubmit your question to the Society boards again. I would recommend stating that you are looking for a Society ruling in the title. As I see it now it will most likely vary by GM.

Here is how I think it may work for PFS:
You summon the human version of either skeleton or zombie. Adjust HD for each as per your level.(As written the oracle ability will make a zombie at first level weaker since it adjusts its HD down one) The number of HD will affect their Hp, BAB, and Saves as per their relevant creation tables. (3/4 BAB and Fort 1/3, Ref 1/3, Will 1/2+2) Also note that zombies have Toughness as a bonus feat. This means after 3HD their bonus to hp will increase. At the appropriate levels you can add the Bloody/Fast/Advanced templates. The Bloody Skeletons Fast Healing will be based off the augmented HD. Meaning at 7th level it will have Fast Healing 3.
This method appears to be slightly less work than applying the templates to any creature that has the right HD. Below are links to the PRD pages to the Oracle, Skeleton, Zombie, and Monster Advancement(for Advanced Template) pages for reference.

Oracle
Zombie
Skeleton
Monster Advancement

[Sir_Wulf]

To drag this thread from its grave...

One of my players has an oracle with this ability. He would love to make his skeleton larger or use other creatures with appropriate HD as the skeleton base (For a 3rd level caster, how about a velociraptor skeleton, small, fast, and nimble?)

To argue for advancing its size, he would reference the PRD: "As a general rule, creatures whose Hit Dice increase by 50% or more should also increase in size, but GMs should feel free to ignore this rule if warranted by the individual creature or situation.")

I haven't seen any traction for this interpretation, but do think that adding some options would make the ability scale better. ("Ooh, look! A 9 HD skeleton attacking me with two claws for 1d4+3 each! I'm scared now!")

[Murdock Mudeater]

Voyd211 wrote:

So I'm playing an oracle with the Bones mystery, and I'm curious about one of the revelations.

Raise the Dead.

According to its text, you can create a single skeleton or zombie with HD equal to your own. Thing is, it's completely unspecific about the kind of skeleton/zombie you make. Are you absolutely required to make a human skeleton, as created in the Bestiary, or could you pull, say, an orc skeleton out of the ground to throw at enemies?

Read it again. You aren't creating any undead, you are SUMMONING them.

But for your question, no, it isn't clear. Since it's a summon, I'd lean towards the Bestiary entry for the basic skeleton or zombie (which is human). For PFS play, you'd definitely use the Bestiary entry, but for home games, I'd ask the GM if you want to apply another race.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to add to a necro'ed thread. Really need to read the dates before responding...

[Murdock Mudeater]

Sir_Wulf wrote:

To drag this thread from its grave...

One of my players has an oracle with this ability. He would love to make his skeleton larger or use other creatures with appropriate HD as the skeleton base (For a 3rd level caster, how about a velociraptor skeleton, small, fast, and nimble?)

To argue for advancing its size, he would reference the PRD: "As a general rule, creatures whose Hit Dice increase by 50% or more should also increase in size, but GMs should feel free to ignore this rule if warranted by the individual creature or situation.")

I haven't seen any traction for this interpretation, but do think that adding some options would make the ability scale better. ("Ooh, look! A 9 HD skeleton attacking me with two claws for 1d4+3 each! I'm scared now!")

Has your player seen the Skeleton Summoner Feat? Ultimate Magic. Allows once per day ability to apply the undead template to a summoned monster. Oracles can summon monsters, so this is the easier route on that end. Can use this to summon an Undead Tyrannosaurous with summon monster VII.

Regarding this ability, the main strong point is that it's a standard action summon as a Su ability (Supernatural applies are a lot harder to shut down, plus normal summons require an entire round casting).

I will also note, for you the GM, that it is possible, through favored class bonuses, to have the Oracle's level count as higher than their actual level for the purposes of a relevation such as this. So becareful in boosting this one, as you could end up with summons that have greater HD than you are prepare for. A 12th level Elven Oracle, for example, could use this to generate a 14 HD skeleton.