Dr Fate's alignment

[Justin Rocket]

I was watching Young Justice after reading one of the many ubiquotous alignment threads on this forum, so I was already in the mindset of thinking about alignment.

What alignment is Dr. Fate? He seems like a good guy, but holding people hostage (as he does with many of the people who wear the helmet) is in no way a good act.

[Vod Canockers]

Lawful Neutral. He always seemed more interested in guilt or innocence than right or wrong.

[Set]

Fate, like the Specter, would probably work best as LN, yeah.

Or, if good, a very scary draconian no-mercy 'I know what's best for everyone' sort of good, which, to my mind, isn't really 'good' at all.

I'm not sure that Fate even thinks of himself as 'good,' so much as 'necessary.' In his Swamp Thing appearance, he was portrayed as utterly inflexible, with no concept of shades of gray or a need for balance (as perhaps befits a lord of order whose moral codes were developed 5000 years ago, and, by modern standards, are less 'good and evil' and more 'maat and not-maat' or, to us, about as relevant as blue and orange). Indeed, his attitudes towards their foe were as dogmatic and hidebound as those of the demon Etrigan, although they came by their views from very different standpoints, obviously. Both shared, however, utter contempt for their enemies, and a complete unwillingness, or perhaps even inability, to understand that things come in degrees or that even things they don't agree with might have their role to play or their place in the universe.

If I had to pick an alignment, it would totally be LN. With shades of Vorlon.

[Greatbear]

Doctor Fate is a Lord of Order, so he'd definitely be Lawful Neutral. He's less interested in justice than he is in preventing chaos.

[Theryon Stormrune]

Spectre LN?!? Sorry, he's definitely chaotic.

As far as Fate, there is two interpretations … the way others view him and the way he views himself. I agree that he tends to act more LN in our perspective. But he views himself as LG more than LN.

[Izar Talon]

In Young Justice Fate was portrayed as icily Lawful Neutral, with Nabu totally dominating the host. But in the comics it was usually portrayed as more of a blend of personalities with the host being mostly in control, advised and guided by Nabu. Dr. Fate is the human vessel of Nabu, one of the Lords of Order, almost a literal embodiment of Law (like like YJ's Klarion the Witch-Boy was one of the Lords of Chaos.)

I would agree that Nabu has an Alignment of Lawful Vorlon, as Set alluded to.

In the comics, Nabu's personality has varied between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Good depending on the writer and the era, with more current stories making Nabu more and more LN Vorlon-like "Pure Order." The full composite being of Dr. Fate, on the other hand, seems to somewhat depend on the strength of the mind and spirit of Nabu's human host, who, if he or she is strong enough, may be able to exert some "humanizing" influence on Nabu (as Kent Nelson did in Young Justice.)

In Young Justice Zatarra didn't seem to be able to exert all THAT much influence on Nabu, at least at that early point in their "partnership" which we saw. Although he WAS able to exert at least some, as evidenced by Dr. Fate saying that he wished to be a member of the Justice League because Zatarra desired it. That may have been an indication that Zatarra's influence on Nabu would gradually grow stronger and humanize Dr. Fate, as Kent Nelson had been able to do.

Dr. Fate's portrayal in Justice League (Unlimited) was closer to the classic Dr. Fate from the comics. (That's not to say that I didn't enjoy Young Justice; I did, quite a lot.)

Unfortunately, we will never know how the Zatarra/Nabu version of Dr. Fate would have ultimately turned out, as Warner Bros. "wisely" decided to cancel the show (as well as Green Lantern) in favor of their upcoming "Beware the Batman" CG kiddie-trash as part of their mostly execrable "New 52" initiative. Apparently because it was doing very well critically but still wasn't doing "well enough" for WB (IE: not selling enough toys.) I never even saw a Young Justice toy anywhere TO buy. Also, it was still using the old pre-New 52 character designs, which is a big no-no now (no armor plates or techno belt in Superman's costume, and he still had a spit-curl and wore trunks, so it had to go!)

[Calybos1]

Being/serving a Lord of Order means that Dr. Fate is always and everywhere lawful, 100%*. Differing portrayals of him have varied between LN and LG.

(*Yes, even when he was a tattooed mercenary with a "fate-knife.")

The Spectre is defined as the Spirit of Vengeance, which is often lawful but can seldom be described as "good" per se. He punishes murderers, which accomplishes a social benefit, but he seldom does so for altruistic reasons like defending the innocent or pursuing justice; he simply punishes the guilty because they've broken a moral law.

Though he often sided with heroes, the Spectre usually came across as LN to N. There's nothing chaotic about him or his mission, unless you consider his disregard for mortal regulations and authorities 'chaotic.' But he's no vigilante; he reports directly to God.

[Set]

It does seem that, particularly with Kent Nelson, the Dr. Fate composite entity was a combination of NG Kent Nelson and LN Nabu, way back in the day, but for a few decades now, since the Alan Moore portrayal in Swamp Thing, definitely (and in the cartoon), Fate has come off as more LN, with Nabu more of a jerk and more likely to seize control.

(Back in the Justice Society days, more LG or even NG, with less focus on Nabu as a separate entity, as I recall.)