So a little background, I am playing in a Skull & Shackles game. Our group really needs a conversationalist. My character is Captain but the Gm is allowing me to change it. I want to make a bard with good social and knowledge skills. I also need to hold my own in combat. We are using a 25 point buy. He has said I can change all my stuff except equipment which i can do only slightly. The rest of the group is an orc barbarian and an elven ranger(archer). Any tips and advice would be awesome. Thanks in advance. I look forward to your replies.
Hard to go wrong with a Sea Singer bard in a Skull & Shackles campaign, or a Savage Skald with a Barbarian in the group.
Other than that, take a look at both the Sound Striker and Thundercaller if you are favoring being able to bring some fairly considerable damage to the table.
What have you been playing? Would multiclassing to rogue or bard to buck up your interpersonal skills do the job without totally rewriting your character?
I'm currently playing in a Skull and Shackles campaign, captaining the ship as a half orc summoner. When I found myself a bit behind on useful shipboard skills, I took a level of bard. Admittedly, I already had a high charisma so the multiclass worked reasonably well - I got a bunch more cantrips, the featherfall spell (been very useful so far), a bunch of useful skill points and class skill bonuses, and I can inspire courage for my crew for several rounds a day. And so far I haven't had the need to take a second level of bard (we're 7th level PCs now).
One reason I ask is because you may be filling a valuable niche now with your current character class (some kind of long range blasty wizard would do our group some good but... we don't currently have one). Switching to bard to fix one discrepancy may leave you with others.
If you cant change your gear, it would be a good idea to know what you were, and what you have. Holding your own is very managable as a bard, and ANY bard can be good with social skills, so you will have lots of choices to make besides fufilling those 2 basic criteria.
Here there are some bard builds that can give you ideas and inspiration. I especially like the Dervish of Dawn/MoMS bard, but it is short of knowledges.
Aasimar 18th level Dervish of Dawn / 2nd level Master of Many Styles
Halfling Archeologist (arcgery combat style
Catfolk, [any alignment], (lore mystery, legalistic curse) Oracle 1 / (Archaeologist) Bard 19
A grin at seeing two of my builds re-posted out of nowhere.
Heya Mors - I've updated both of those since posting them. Let me know if you want to see the improvements...
Of course I do ;)Here there are some bard builds that can give you ideas and inspiration. I especially like the Dervish of Dawn/MoMS bard, but it is short of knowledges.
Aasimar 18th level Dervish of Dawn / 2nd level Master of Many Styles
Halfling Archeologist (arcgery combat style
Catfolk, [any alignment], (lore mystery, legalistic curse) Oracle 1 / (Archaeologist) Bard 19
A grin at seeing two of my builds re-posted out of nowhere.
Heya Mors - I've updated both of those since posting them. Let me know if you want to see the improvements...
Shoot me a private message so that I don't forget and when I have the builds in front of me I'll post them.
Btw - that Dervish is goign to be twins now when we start up Wrath of the Righteous. Me and another player, one representing Sarenrae's vengeful side, one her redemption but the builds will be identical. We're even going to take some teamwork feats so that we can fight more effectively together.
I apologise for the slow response. I posted hastily at work this morning. I am currently a undine storm druid. While my casting has been beneficial it has in no way been so much that I couldn't play another class. My problems with most of the archetypes for bard is that it seems too much is traded for what you get. If it helps the GM hasn't done really anything with weather to warrant calming the waters to be useful. I like what the druid will be able to do in the future but as mentioned before our group lacks knowledge of anything but nature and profession sailor. The highest charisma in it is 10 and no one has any social ability. I also always find myself talking for the group whether I make a Face or not. Dervish bards have always looked cool to me, I just feel I will lose the ability to be an effective face/knowledge guy. Please keep the input/advice coming you guys are great.
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I apologise for the slow response. I posted hastily at work this morning. I am currently a undine storm druid. While my casting has been beneficial it has in no way been so much that I couldn't play another class. My problems with most of the archetypes for bard is that it seems too much is traded for what you get. If it helps the GM hasn't done really anything with weather to warrant calming the waters to be useful. I like what the druid will be able to do in the future but as mentioned before our group lacks knowledge of anything but nature and profession sailor. The highest charisma in it is 10 and no one has any social ability. I also always find myself talking for the group whether I make a Face or not. Dervish bards have always looked cool to me, I just feel I will lose the ability to be an effective face/knowledge guy. Please keep the input/advice coming you guys are great.
Here you go.
To be honest, you can play around with a number of Bard archetypes that would work well, but what it boils down to is that you're looking for a character who can 1) be a good face guy, 2) have useful knowledge skills, 3) serve as the party's buffer during fights and healer in between, with any additional contrinutions to combat being laginappe.
Go with a straight Human Bard. Take 2 levels of Lore Warden at 2nd and 3rd and then progress as a Bard the rest of the way. Take advantage of the Human racial trait of Focused Study to boost your skills and of the favored class option for Bards to expand your spell list. It'll look something like this:
Human 15th level Bard / 2nd level Lore Warden
Focused Study, Human favored class option for Bards
Attributes: (25 point buy)
STR - 10
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 12
WIS - 8
CHA - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)
Traits:
Reactionary
Magical Knack
Feats:
1st - Lingering Performance
1st - Skill Focus: Perform (Comedy)
2nd - Weapon Focus: Rapier
3rd - Combat Expertise
3rd - Dazzling Display
3rd - Skill Focus: Swim
5th - Spell Focus: Enchantment
7th - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
8th - Skill Focus: Perform (Oratory)
9th - Eldritch Heritage: Dehydrating Touch
11th - Improved Eldritch Heritage: Aquatic Telepathy
13th - Discordant Voice
15th - Quicken Spell
16th - Skill Focus: Perform (Dance)
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage: Aquatic Adaptation
Load up on Perform (Comedy) and Perform (Oratory) - those will give you a twofer skill-wise with Versatile Performance. In combat open with a buff spell like Haste, start your Inspire Courage Performance and then use Dazzling Display to debuff your foes. After that if all you do is use Combat Expertise to serve as a flanking buddy or to protect the Archer you're doing more than your share.
Later feats like Eldritch Heritage and Spell Focus let you enhance your effectiveness both in and out of combat as well. Let me know if you would like any help with skill selection - you get 8 ranks/level.
Here you go.
To be honest, you can play around with a number of Bard archetypes that would work well, but what it boils down to is that you're looking for a character who can 1) be a good face guy, 2) have useful knowledge skills, 3) serve as the party's buffer during fights and healer in between, with any additional contrinutions to combat being laginappe.
Go with a straight Human Bard. Take 2 levels of Lore Warden at 2nd and 3rd and then progress as a Bard the rest of the way. Take advantage of the Human racial trait of Focused Study to boost your skills and of the favored class option for Bards to expand your spell list. It'll look something like this:
Human 15th level Bard / 2nd level Lore Warden
Focused Study, Human favored class option for BardsAttributes: (25 point buy)
STR - 10
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 12
WIS - 8
CHA - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th)Traits:
Reactionary
Magical KnackFeats:
1st - Lingering Performance
1st - Skill Focus: Perform (Comedy)
2nd - Weapon Focus: Rapier
3rd - Combat
...
I like this. My thoughts however, are as follows.
How necessary is Lore Warden?Wouldn't I lose a lot of skill points?
What about losing the two spell levels? I always find it hard to justify their loss.
Also if it helps we are at 5th level at this point in our campaign.
I like this. My thoughts however, are as follows.
How necessary is Lore Warden?
Wouldn't I lose a lot of skill points?
What about losing the two spell levels? I always find it hard to justify their loss.
Also if it helps we are at 5th level at this point in our campaign.
Its not completely necessary. It makes allows you to take some useful feats earlier and clears the room for other feats later on, but skipping the Lore Warden levels wouldn't gimp you at all. Lore Wardens get bonus skill points over standard Fighters so over the entire course of the character you'd lose a total of four, I think. Losing two spell levels is something for sure, but Magical Knack keeps your caster level apace and in return you get a boost to your weak save (Fortitude), a better BAB and more hit points early on in addition to three bonus feats.
The trade-off is entirely up to you. I think its absolutely worthwhile, you may not. The character should be solid either way.
You might want to consider the Sound Striker archetype if you decide to forgo melee competence entirely - if you and your GM can come to a consensus on the intention of the Weird Words ability (there is a debate as to whether you can use multiple words against a single target), it might provide an excellent option for you while having to give up very little.
I am really torn. To Lore Warden or to not. I like the idea of helping in melee as the archer ranger stays on our boat with my druid while the orc would be the only one crossing over. Frankly he can't sit there and take the hits from the whole enemy crew. I also like spells as bigger is better. What changes would you make without lore warden?
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Just a note, if you're not dead set on bard you can still keep a very similar flavour to the character you had and be a party face with an Oracle.
The Oracle is a Cha based caster with 4 skill points + int per level, Diplomacy and some Knowledge skills as class skills, access to spells likes Tap Inner Beauty to enhance 'face' skills and still boasts decent armour usage with a strong Will save.
Taking the Waves revelation would mimic much of a druids powers over nature and seems like it could be inredibly useful in a sea based campaign. The Legalitsic curse would actually *add* to your Diplomacy and can tie in well with the whole "Keep to the Code" style of pirate who once his word is given, keeps it no matter.
Our big knowledge that we need is local. I feel bad always looking to fishguts and asking his opinion. I have sort of deemed him the first mate. I hadn't thought of oracle. Waves seems to be more cold then weather although quite possibly a good idea. Especially as it is a full caster. I just feel a bard has a bit more pirate flair and I never really played one but have often looked at them. I did read some more into oracle I like the legalistic and I think wind is almost cooler.
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If you want Knowledge: Local, there are a number of traits which give it as a class skill (such as http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits/world-traveler-human) and usually include a bonus to it as well. That way you get Cha based full caster, Kn: Local, keep a similar theme so you can avoid having to totally change the story and just reskin your characters powers somewhat, letting you keep the relationships, friends. enemies, etc that you've already developed naturally.
The choice is obviously up to you, but I think a charismatic pirate whose word is his bond, and whose call the very winds themselves obey is a pretty cool character idea! :)
I am really torn. To Lore Warden or to not. I like the idea of helping in melee as the archer ranger stays on our boat with my druid while the orc would be the only one crossing over. Frankly he can't sit there and take the hits from the whole enemy crew. I also like spells as bigger is better. What changes would you make without lore warden?
Keep in mind that your buffs also benefit your crew who fight alongside your Barbarian - but only if they are within 30' which means you need to be there. Besides, the captain should lead from the front, wouldn't you agree?
Without Lore Warden I'd probably drop Combat Expertise and the Eldritch Heritage feats and bump everything else to later in the build.
On a side note, have you seen this thread?
Suthainn, I do like the oracle idea. I feel spontaneous casters are more my style anyway(I know bards are). Would a full caster based oracle be competent in combat. There are many similar features between what I have now as well which I agree would help maintain continuity. How viable is a Wind Oracle? What would be some good spell selections?
Wiggz, I did see that thread before I even begun this one. If i decide to stick with bard I think I will try the lore warden route. The extra feats, health, and options are probably worth it. i just was never big on multiclassing.
My main problem is that I tend to suffer from choice paralysis. I think every class sounds fun to play. At first I played rogues almost exclusively. Since Pathfinder I hav begun to branch out to casters, and I try to play stuff a bit out of the norm for my group. We can almost always count on a rogue, fighter, and ranger type characters with the occasional witch.
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A full caster Oracle is at *least* as good as a Cleric in combat, often better given they get the same spell list and many of their revelations can have strong combat effects. You get to wear medium armour and use weapon/shield, two handed/reach weapon or best of all, go ranged and totally kick ass! By 7th level you can fly without needing to use spells on it, at higher levels Air Barrier gives you better AC than almost any armour you could wear *plus* 50% miss chance vs almost all rays & missile fire.
A fantastic build could be built around summons, an Oracle of the Wind can *start* with Invisibility x level in minutes thanks to the 'Invisibility' revelation. Casting a summons spell doesn't break invisibility, nor does casting a healing spell, or buffing, etc. Once you're done with however much you want to cast, move to a spot you're happy in and attack, or better, with a reach weapon stand 10 foot away from enemies. On your turn cast a spell at them and laugh! They move to attack... AoO. They get next to you? Attack with armour spikes or a cestus or just your hands wreathed in electricity! (Touch of Electricity revelation). This reach melee/summons build would pick feats like Spell Focus (Conj.), Augment Summoning, Superior Summons and Combat Reflexes, etc.
Personally, I think I would go with a ranged Oracle of Wind, maybe something like this;
Oracle of Wind (Human)
Traits: World Traveler (Kn: Local as class skill), Hunters Eye (Proficiency with Long or Short bow)
1 Level feat: Point-blank shot, Human feat: Precise shot, Revelation: Invisibility
3 Level feat: Rapid shot, Revelation: Wind Sight
5 Level feat: Weapon focus
7 Level feat: Deadly aim, Revelation: Wings of Air
9 Level feat: Manyshot
You'd pick up spells such as the whole Summon Monster chain (swapping out lower level ones for new spells as you level up beyond 4th and get more powerful Summon Monster spells), Divine Favour (bonuses to hit *and* damage on all your attacks? Yes please!), Abundant Ammunition (endless free adamantine arrows *and* it allows Magic Weapon to remain on them all!), Lesser Restoration (amazingly useful), Silence (cast Silence on arrow, shoot arrow into bad guy spell caster, laugh), etc. You really are spoiled for choice.
There is a great guide to Cleric/Oracle spells here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I0F-WZEIhLjh3oPcm7Y0y1OJG0VHMf9XiT46b4m CRhM/edit?hl=en
and another to building Oracles themselves here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WdtrZCESRmVfljXY196wMrMLTnS8Uzk4DEk3oQd VZok/edit?hl=en_US
Hope that is all some help!
I knew invisibility was cool. I didn't fully realize the implications of what could be done with it. How does your group run invisibility in combat? The last time my group dealt with it they had no real way out and a mephit I think almost wiped them. Another note my GM does allow a flaw and an extra trait with it.
Another note the links did not work.
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Generally our GM lets us have a lot of leeway if we have a chance to discuss tactics beforehand, but it it's a sudden fight he asks us to act as best we can without knowing the invisible players actions, though of course after working together for some time we're pretty good at guessing what will happen.
Sorry about the links, they're both from this list of all the guides, they should work from there! The spell list is in 'Tarks Big Holy Book' guide, the Oracle one is 'Channeling the Cosmos'.
I have read channeling the Cosmos. It was a good read. I will take a look at the other. Thanks again for everyone's assistance.