The -20 only applies the CMB check made by the grabbing creature trying to maintain a grapple without becoming grappled itself. When a creature grappled this way tries to break the grapple it does so against the grabbing creature's regular CMD.
This is why giant lake squid aren't as dangerous as they first appear unless you're alone--or unless the squid aren't.
personally i think that penalty is way too high, how do birds of prey in golarion catch their food? They'd have to kill it on the ground before they would be able to take it back to their aeries. Okay, they don't have grab, so they would have to anyway, but Rocs would face this problem.
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personally i think that penalty is way too high, how do birds of prey in golarion catch their food? They'd have to kill it on the ground before they would be able to take it back to their aeries. Okay, they don't have grab, so they would have to anyway, but Rocs would face this problem.
Birds don't merely "maintain the hold". I see where your argument is coming from, but in these cases the animal is often (not always) grappling something a size category or more smaller and that can fit into one hand easily. Further, if the animal is pierced by the claws (often they are, otherwise they could gnaw the talon which was holding it until they got free) or squeezed hard enough it cannot strike back at the bird which is a safer situation than flying with a struggling opponent. Finally...it takes very little damage to kill the bird's prey, so when it finally does one or two points, then lunch is quiet and carried away easily. Further, in nature, most animals rely on food they can kill and consume with a minnimum of effort. Carrying dinner away is for feeding young (often regurgitated, cause it's safer in your belly when in transit) or for animals that are worried about becoming prey while they eat. Most of everything else eats where it finds the food and scatters when required.
I am not sure what Threeshades is referring to with Rocs.
They establish the Grapple, possibly via Grab.
Then they can use the Move option of Maintain a Grapple to fly with the prey, returning to the nest (etc).
Taking the -20 option is not required.
Sometimes the -20 option is a good idea on SUBSEQUENT rounds of "Maintaining a Grapple", when (if the target hasn't yet escaped) the Grappler will get a +5 bonus to Maintain in addition to the lower CMD due to the target's DEX penalty from the Grappled condition... so the -20 penalty is more like -14 instead. The -20 option will largely be used either for allowing more movement (probably up to the Grappler's Reach if they wish to Maintain the Grapple) or to make AoOs against other opponents, otherwise the removal of the Grappled penalty to DEX will also minorly increase CMD.
Try searching my post history for Kraken, I've posted on their optimal tactical options several times.
They can gain the benefits of the -20 option without taking the penalty.
Effectively, there is more allowed movement, and the 'move target adjacent to you on successful Grapple check' still applies,
so they don't even need to use the Move option in order to carry a Grappled target along with them,
although doing so may allow them to move faster/ further (with victim in tow).
Then they can use the Move option of Maintain a Grapple to fly with the prey, returning to the nest (etc).
As an aside, it is actually a standard action to maintain a grapple to move your prey.
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Then they can use the Move option of Maintain a Grapple to fly with the prey, returning to the nest (etc).As an aside, it is actually a standard action to maintain a grapple to move your prey.
Quandary was referring to this:
Grapple
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices). If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.
Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.
Pin: You can give your opponent the pinned condition (see Conditions). Despite pinning your opponent, you still only have the grappled condition, but you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.
Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
The option is Move. Not a move action.
There's a move option. I keep forgetting parts of the grapple rules.
My bad, I read the post too quickly. Don't mind me, then. :)