Using corpses as shield


Rules Questions


Hi,

I've come across an interesting situation where the player wants to use a corpse as a meat shield against archers and I did not see anything in the core book that would cover that...

Now, I would like to know your opinion as to how to rule this...


I don't think this would actually be covered by the rules, as not everything can be. I'd be nice and offer +1 shield bonus from an improvised shield, and while wielding the corpse takes a -4 melee penalty if he tries to melee with the other hand.

Grand Lodge

Soft Cover or Partial Cover.

See here.


Soft cover makes sense, but I would apply some penalties because dead bodies are harder to manage than almost anything else unless he is proficient in corpses.

And if he is proficient, watch him VERY carefully!

The Exchange

yeah, as Blkbloodtroll said, Soft cover or partial cover. I would also take a gander at how a tower shield works and what non-proficiency and improvised does to that...

Grand Lodge

Sort of depends on the corpse, and how it was used as shield.


Fake Healer wrote:
yeah, as Blkbloodtroll said, Soft cover or partial cover. I would also take a gander at how a tower shield works and what non-proficiency and improvised does to that...

You take the armor check penalty on your attack rolls. So maybe treating it like a tower shield might be fair since it helps to show how hard it is to deal with dead bodies (they have a -10 ACP), plus it has another -2 to attack rolls due to tower shield rules. The actual bonuses to AC are the same as soft cover anyway.

Although I might wave the nonproficiency thing if they could normally use tower shields. I think the training would be close enough to work, and it gives the party fighter a way to show off.


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Allow him cover only if its a pile of dead bards.


With a character sheet for each.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would treat it as cover, but only if he used both hands and basically did nothing but move--essentially limiting it to "means of escape or relocation."


Depends on what you mean. Is he holding the corpse, or is he piling them like sandbags?

For the former, I'd say soft cover, with a -2 to attacks for holding onto someone. For the latter, I'd treat it as a waist high wall (assuming medium human corpses) and be +4 cover bonus to AC.


HIDE BEHIND THE MOUND OF DEAD BARDS!

Grand Lodge

Really, there is no "improvised shield" or "improvised armor" within the rules.

This should be cover.

What kind of cover, is really depending on the corpse, and how it is used.


Don't forget about encumbrance!depending on the corpse, they do have quite a bit of weight. I'd ally the soft cover rules and be very careful with the weights. It should balance.


Actually most of the 'things not covered by the rules' can be covered by a +1 or +2 circumstance bonus that the CRB tells GMs to apply when it makes sense to.


Skylancer4 wrote:
Actually most of the 'things not covered by the rules' can be covered by a +1 or +2 circumstance bonus that the CRB tells GMs to apply when it makes sense to.

Can you show me the page number to that? I was trying to find it earlier to prove a point, but I honestly couldn't. Thanks!


Odraude wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:
Actually most of the 'things not covered by the rules' can be covered by a +1 or +2 circumstance bonus that the CRB tells GMs to apply when it makes sense to.
Can you show me the page number to that? I was trying to find it earlier to prove a point, but I honestly couldn't. Thanks!

Page 403 of the CRB calls it the Fiat Rule:

One handy rule to keep under your belt is the Fiat Rule—simply grant a player a +2 or a –2 bonus or penalty to a die roll if no one at the table is precisely sure how a situation might be handled by the rules.

This is a carry-over from the 3.5 DMG which called this the "DM's best friend."


Thanks. I had one player in an old game that got mad whenever I gave out circumstancial bonuses or penalties, citing it as not part of the rules. Now I can make him eat his CRB ;)


I agree that it should be used, and am happy it is there, but you shouldn't really give it out too often. It think of it as a "reward" for quick/out of the box thinking and don't give it again after the situation is resolved. Giving it out too often makes the players expect it or rely on it and they can feel slighted when you don't give it to them.

I would honestly not even tell them you are applying it, mentally applying it as a penalty against whoever/whatever they are confronted with.


Depends on the size of the corpse, I'd say.

Silver Crusade

Ivalios wrote:

Hi,

I've come across an interesting situation where the player wants to use a corpse as a meat shield against archers and I did not see anything in the core book that would cover that...

Now, I would like to know your opinion as to how to rule this...

I can answer that question. From 5-02 The Wardstone Patrol:

During Combat The "blank" telepathically command the
two armed humans to attack the PCs. The demons then
approach, wielding the barely-conscious peasants’ bodies as
shields to gain partial cover...

Now, can someone tell me how to put that Spoiler/Hide button on my next post that may give away something in a scenario?


Click the show button, right by text "How to format your text" below the text box you type in. Has the various options.

Silver Crusade

Skylancer4 wrote:
Click the show button, right by text "How to format your text" below the text box you type in. Has the various options.

Thanks:
I appreciate the help.
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