I'm planning to playing a Paladin/Mesmerist, and I would like to know if I can add my CHA Bonus to my Will saves three times over using Divine Grace, The Steadfast Personality Feat, and Towering Ego. Can these actually stack? Here are rules for quick reference:
-Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
-Steadfast Personality
You rely on your sense of self to keep your mind clear.
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus to Will saves. If you have a Wisdom penalty, you must apply both your Wisdom penalty and your Charisma modifier.
-Towering Ego (Su): At 2nd level, a mesmerist gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum 0) on Will saving throws. If the mesmerist is under any effect that would prevent him from providing the emotional component of psychic spells, he loses this bonus on saving throws.
I'm planning to playing a Paladin/Mesmerist, and I would like to know if I can add my CHA Bonus to my Will saves three times over using Divine Grace, The Steadfast Personality Feat, and Towering Ego. Can these actually stack? Here are rules for quick reference:
-Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
-Steadfast Personality
You rely on your sense of self to keep your mind clear.
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus to Will saves. If you have a Wisdom penalty, you must apply both your Wisdom penalty and your Charisma modifier.-Towering Ego (Su): At 2nd level, a mesmerist gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum 0) on Will saving throws. If the mesmerist is under any effect that would prevent him from providing the emotional component of psychic spells, he loses this bonus on saving throws.
No. From the FAQ:
Do ability modifiers from the same ability stack? For instance, can you add the same ability bonus on the same roll twice using two different effects that each add that same ability modifier?
No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
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Without looking them up and verifying the language, if you posted the relevant bits, none of them stack, as they all qualify as non-typed ability bonuses from the same ability, which the FAQ says won't stack.
Do ability modifiers from the same ability stack? For instance, can you add the same ability bonus on the same roll twice using two different effects that each add that same ability modifier?
No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
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if I can add my CHA Bonus to my Will saves three times
-Divine Grace (Su): ... a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
-Steadfast Personality ... Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus to Will saves.
-Towering Ego (Su): ... a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum 0) on Will saving throws.
You have CHA and CON to Fort.
You have CHA and DEX to Ref.You have (CHA|CHA|CHA) to Will.
The three to Will will not stack, as you are adding the same thing three times and it will not stack.
I can say with absolute certainty that Divine Grace and Towering Ego do not stack with each other. Steadfast Personality actually does stack, but that's because you're posting the feat's text wrong; it is specifically a bonus against mind-affecting effects, not all will saves, which makes it a different bonus.
I can say with absolute certainty that Divine Grace and Towering Ego do not stack with each other. Steadfast Personality actually does stack, but that's because you're posting the feat's text wrong; it is specifically a bonus against mind-affecting effects, not all will saves, which makes it a different bonus.
Not according to the PRD.
Edit: Though the FAQ does say differently. The PRD just hasn't been changed.
Even if it is just to mind-affecting affects, it still shouldn't stack. You would still be adding your Charisma bonus twice to the same save.
No, you would be adding your Charisna bonus to:
1. All Will saves.
2. And all mind-affectkng effects.
I'd say they're different enough to stack, as not all Will saves are mind-affecting.
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No, you would be adding your Charisna bonus to:
1. All Will saves.
2. And all mind-affectkng effects.I'd say they're different enough to stack, as not all Will saves are mind-affecting.
But you would be adding the same thing, from the same source, even though one of them is limited in when it adds. So, no, they wouldn't stack.
No, you would be adding your Charisna bonus to:
1. All Will saves.
2. And all mind-affectkng effects.I'd say they're different enough to stack, as not all Will saves are mind-affecting.
No, you are applying your Charisma bonus to:
1. All Will saves.2. All saves against mind affecting effects.
Both are a bonus to a saving throw. They won't stack.
I can say with absolute certainty that Divine Grace and Towering Ego do not stack with each other. Steadfast Personality actually does stack, but that's because you're posting the feat's text wrong; it is specifically a bonus against mind-affecting effects, not all will saves, which makes it a different bonus.Not according to the PRD.
Edit: Though the FAQ does say differently. The PRD just hasn't been changed.
Even if it is just to mind-affecting affects, it still shouldn't stack. You would still be adding your Charisma bonus twice to the same save.
Ah, yeah rereading the FAQ you're right. It seems like the determination is based on the specific die roll rather than what is generally being modified. Arguably a more sensible ruling anyways, Paladins definitely do not need Steadfast Personality.
Okay, thank you everyone for setting me straight on this. I just had to be sure.
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Do ability modifiers from the same ability stack? For instance, can you add the same ability bonus on the same roll twice using two different effects that each add that same ability modifier?
No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
So these two things should stack:
"Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus"
"A paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws"
EDIT: Herpy derp. Derp derpy herp.
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Do ability modifiers from the same ability stack? For instance, can you add the same ability bonus on the same roll twice using two different effects that each add that same ability modifier?
No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
So these two things should stack:
"Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus"
"A paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws"
No, they do not, you would be adding the same untyped bonus from the same ability modifier to the same thing, and this is not allowed.
It would let you add your Cha mod to your Fort and Reflex saves, but you are already adding your Cha to the Will save. Please note what you bolded is a typed bonus and thus different.
So these two things should stack:
"Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus"
"A paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws"
No, because "a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus(if any)" = "your Charisma modifier". Both are untyped bonuses with Charisma as the source and so don't stack.
If you had "Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom score" and "Add a morale bonus equal to your Charisma modifier" those would stack because one is now a bonus with the "morale" type. If you then had "add a sacred bonus equal to your Charisma modifier" all three would stack.
Oh right, I herped on Divine Grace. Reading fast is hard.