Im wondering if as an Arcane Duelist bard, if I should get Two weapon fighting to fling out more Cards per round and hence more damage.
Im not trying to optimize for damage just generally usefulness. Im going through RoTRL with this character.
Just remember you need technically one hand free to cast spells with somatic components. The Quick Draw feat takes care of most concerns in this case, however. I've played TWF bards before which works fine for a melee bard, just something to bear in mind. One nice thing is Arcane Strike notes that it enhances your "weapons" plural, so it can be used for both weapon in hand.
I am not familiar with the "Deadly Dealer" feat to comment on its particular usefulness. I can't find it in the Pathfinder Reference Document so I assume it's a campaign setting feat?
I'm playing an Arcane Duelist Bard with Deadly Dealer in Kingmaker and I think the Two weapon Feats are a must but it's more important to get ranged weapon feats like point blank shot, precise shot first in my opinion. Quick Draw I think is also a must. I helped the feat intensity of my build by having the Magical Knack trait and taking two levels of Fighter. My big debate was whether to take TWF or Deadly Aim first because of where my base attack bonus was at I took TWF first and my next feat will be Deadly Aim
Yeah im a human so i have some of the Key ranged feats. I have Point Blank and Precise shot. Right now im throwing daggers which is pretty fun.
As far as Kazaan says. I dont honestly know. I think they would be ammo which means I cant enchant a harrow deck with Endless ammunition correct?
Hmm, question, when you use Deadly Dealer, are the cards considered +0 even if you pump +1 into them from Arcane Strike? Because it specifies that they deal damage "as a dart", but further states that using a Harrow Deck works as if you were using masterwork darts. But if it already was getting +1 from Arcane Strike, masterwork would be a non-issue. So do you need to put +2 from Arcane Strike to net a +1 dart? Still, it's much more cost-efficient than using normal darts. A minimal deck of cards is 1sp for 54 ammo whereas you'd spend 5sp for a single dart. Even if you splurge and get a 10-20 sp deck of cards, you're still paying only 2-4 coppers per throw. The only big issue is that TWF penalty is going to stack with Rapid Shot penalty if you choose to combine the two. Another thing to consider is what weapon category would darts fall under: light or one-handed? They're longer than an arrow, but shorter than a javelin and Arrows are equivalent to daggers while javelins are equivalent to shortspears; which end of the spectrum would a dart, and by extension, a weaponized playing card, fall into? I've looked and can't find any indication. If anything, since ranged weapons technically have no weapon category, they cannot be treated as light weapons unless a specific exception is given... in which case darts are not light weapons because they don't state that they are and you suffer -4/-4 when TWF with darts (or cards) in each hand.
Arcane Strike enhances damage only, and makes them count as magic.
If you wanted the +1 to hit you would need them to be MWK.
I'd also still like to know where this feat (Deadly Dealer) came from.
As far as Kazaan says. I dont honestly know. I think they would be ammo which means I cant enchant a harrow deck with Endless ammunition correct?
Only bows and crossbows can be made into endless ammunition weapons...
So no.
Your skill with handling cards and arcane talents allow you to turn mundane cards into deadly weapons.
Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks.
Benefit: You can throw a card as though it were a dart, with the same damage, range, and other features. You must use the Arcane Strike feat when throwing a card in this way, or else the card lacks the magical force and precision to deal lethal damage. A card is destroyed when thrown in this way.
Harrow cards are treated as masterwork weapons when thrown using this feat, but are still destroyed after they are thrown. A harrow deck can no longer be used as a fortunetelling device after even a single card is thrown.
A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used. Only a character who possesses this feat can make use of an enhanced deck of cards, and must still use the Arcane Strike feat to activate the cards’ enhancement.
Looks like Varisian Players guide.
Nice to know about that feat if I ever want to make my Paper Master character. :) (a la Read or Die)
Looking at Kazaan's question now, it looks like the intention is that instead of boosting the weapon's damage, you are using Arcane Strike to "weaponize" the cards, so you do not get any bonus to damage (and never got a bonus to hit).
You'd have to check with your GM to be sure you could draw with the same hand throwing the card to use TWF. And as Epoch noted, you will need Quick Draw or otherwise you can't TWF because you need to do that as a full attack.
I think that you'd still get the regular bonus to damage from Arcane Strike. Nothing in the feat says that you wouldn't. It also doesn't seem like a game balance concern to me since you could presumably just throw regular darts with spending a feat and they'd get Arcane Strike damage.
The issues around doing TWF while possibly needing to hold something like a deck of cards in one hand seem pretty complex. Anyhow, if TWF works it is probably a good idea since you'd be able to multiply your damage bonus from Inspire Courage and Arcane Strike more often.
As an off the wall suggestion, I think that 4 levels of Paladin with Oath of Vengeance could probably help you out a lot. In particular, getting a +5 or +6 Charisma bonus on your attack rolls would help you hit despite TWF and Deadly Aim. The boost to damage wouldn't hurt either.
Another thing to consider is what weapon category would darts fall under: light or one-handed? They're longer than an arrow, but shorter than a javelin and Arrows are equivalent to daggers while javelins are equivalent to shortspears; which end of the spectrum would a dart
Darts are light weapons for the purposes of TWF. See Core rules pg 202
Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one handed weapon.
Emphasis Mine.
You'd have to check with your GM to be sure you could draw with the same hand throwing the card to use TWF.
I can find nothing in the rules about this DQ but why wouldn't he be able to? You can attack with a sword you drew with quickdraw, it's the intention of the feat to allow attacks with that weapon otherwise quick draw doesn't help your action economy at all.
The issues around doing TWF while possibly needing to hold something like a deck of cards in one hand seem pretty complex.
This is where it gets dicey, my character sews leather dice cases to his belt with craft leather working and my GM said that counted as a sheath for the cards. I still needed quickdraw but he figured with a feat tax like quickdraw and a skill point tax (although I only put one point into craft) and the fact that darts can have sheathes cheaply, and the fact that Deadly Dealer while fun is ultimately sub optimal, that this was fine working out.
Rapid Shot and TWF penalties do stack but -4/-4/-4 for three attacks is nothing especially when you are early on.
As a human Arcan Duelis you start with three feats(one of which is arcane strike), you are going to take deadly dealer at five, that gives you a feat at 3rd, then again at 7th and 9th if you stay bard.
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike (1st)
Quick Draw(3rd)
Deadly Dealer(5th)
Rapid Shot(7th)
TWF(9th)
Full attacking looks like this
-2 penalty TWF, -2 penalty rapid shot, +6 BAB(primary), +2 inspire courage(from the round before maintained as a free) +1 masterwork (harrow decks are cheap) +dex modifier (this should be at least +4),+1 Point Blank shot where applicable
for a total of
+8/+8/+8/+3 or +9/+9/+9/+4 with PBS
DMG 1d4+2(Arcane strike)+str mod+2Courage
with even a 14 str this is 1d4+6 primary 1d4+5 off hand
Sub optimal but fun.
Be gambit my friend, be gambit (or TF)