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So, I was thinking of building a Control style Sorcerer. I ended up with a race boon(Ifrit) for PFS and was toying around with different builds using that race.
One of the advantages I saw was the incredible bonus to initiative I could establish: +4 Race, +4 Imp Init, +4 Familiar(Varisian Tattoo Archetype), +4 Deuling weapon (spiked gauntlet), + Dex Mod, +2 Trait mod. This could be around +20 to Initiative without too much expense.
DC's could be +6 at level 1 (Elemental(Fire) Bloodline and Cha).
Any suggestions or advice on how to put something like this together? I haven't spent much time building casters so this would be difficult terrain for me in Pathfinder.
Well, both the Elemental and Efreeti bloodlines do very little for a Control sorceror. But +2 Cha is +2 Cha. Wishcrafting, OTOH, doesn't do much either.
1. level retraining is free. So Magical Lineage (Daze) + Extend Spell will give you a very nice at-will action against humanoids.
Color Spray and Grease are the other level 1 winners. At level 1, I'd consider keeping the Fire resistance, so your friends can throw alchemist fire at you and the swarm that's eating you, but retrain it to initiative. You're right that initiative is very tasty.
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Any other advice? I'm pretty set for spell selection. The way I look at it, I can select a (small) variety of spells for control and damage. Avoid all spells with the Fire descriptor except where requisite, since I can transfer them into Fire for bonuses to save DC and other Sorcerer abilities.
Crossblood seems to be commonly considered a poor investment, combined Fire/Arcane would pad out the poor offerings of the Elemental(Fire) bloodline. Anyone have other suggestions or ideas?
Magical Lineage (Magic Missile) + Toppling spell is a favorite of mine, keeping the melee having to spend actions to stand.
If you're dead set on maxing initiative then don't forget the feat Noble Scion and take Scion of War for Cha Mod instead of Dex Mod to initiative (assuming that's PFS legal).
edit: Another option is to take an actually useful bloodline and use Eldritch Heritage to get Elemental Fire bloodline to trigger Fire Affinity.
Honestly the extra +2cha for the casting is not that helpful. The extra spells is meh, since I never have ran out of spells on my controll sorcerer. The extra DC is great, but other bloodlines I think do thats and more.
Dual blooded is rough since you have less spells. Getting your next level spells a level late is not worth taking it.
If i had an ifrit I would make a blaster cleric. Take magic knack. Then dip in dual blooded sorcerer red dragond/orc, wizard evoker admixture(to change away from fire is needed)
Theologian cleric with the fire domain. With feats like spell specialization, bloat iniate, and varisian tattoo.
You would cast your best spell at +5 caster level with 2 extra damage per die rolled.
At level 7 you could do 12d6+25(+50%) fireball. Around 100 damage.
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If you're dead set on maxing initiative then don't forget the feat Noble Scion and take Scion of War for Cha Mod instead of Dex Mod to initiative (assuming that's PFS legal).
I'm not dead set on it, it's just very easy to get great initiative. I'll look into the Noble Scion, thanks!
edit: Another option is to take an actually useful bloodline and use Eldritch Heritage to get Elemental Fire bloodline to trigger Fire Affinity.
I do not think it works that way. I believe I have to actually be Elemental(Fire) Bloodline to make it work.
Honestly the extra +2cha for the casting is not that helpful. The extra spells is meh, since I never have ran out of spells on my controll sorcerer. The extra DC is great, but other bloodlines I think do thats and more.
Hmm. That's an interesting statement. I agree the extra spell is not overwhelming. However, with a trait, a feat, and the fire affinity I get to add +3DC to my (qualifying) spells. That's significant. I was hoping to find some different ways on capitalizing on that. I'll look into the cleric idea you brought up. I hadn't really looked into Clerics very much yet, still toying with an Inquisitor concept. +5 CL is a very enticing suggestion.
Honestly, if the Fire Affinity included the Wizard class I'd be done already. I still may end up making a blaster Sorcerer just for the personal reward of watch eyebrows arch when I announce my DC's. It won't stop my shoulders from slumping when they are all immune/resistant, though.
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Having spent a fairly exhaustive amount of time pouring over the information I could get my hands on. I think I've found a viable way to handle it.
The first part is acknowledging a hit on some useful abilities by not getting the better bloodlines. The second is using the benefits to better value than initially presented.
Tattoed Sorcerer: Elemental(Fire) Bloodline, the relevant bits
Race: Ifrit
Charisma 20 (22 for Sorcerer Abilities and Spells per day)
Fire Affinity
Wildfire Heart (+4 Init)
Bloodline Arcana: Transfer damage from one energy type into Fire. *This is open to any energy type by the wording, Sonic, Force, Light, etc...
Trait: Elemental Affinity(Fire) +1 DC to Fire spells
Trait: Something else, probably initiative
L1: Familiar Tattoo - Greensting Scorpion (+4 Initiative)
L1: Varisian Tattoo - Conjuration +1 CL
L1: Spell Focus(Conjuration) - +1 DC
L3: Noble Scion(War) - Charisma for Initiative
L3: Energy Resistance 10(Fire)
L5: Elemental Focus(Fire) - +1 DC
L7: Greater Spell Focus(Conjuration) - +1 DC
L7: Create Spell Tattoo 1/day
L9: Greater Elemental Focus(Fire) - +1 DC
L9: Enhanced Varisian Tattoo - +2 CL to specific conjuration spell
At level 9, we'll go easy and say +2 Charisma item, and 2 stat points raising Charisma to 24(26)...
- So, my DC's would be:
- Any Spell = Spell Level + 18 (10 + 8)
- Conjuration Only = Spell Level + 20 (10 + 8 + 2)
- Fire and Conjuration = Spell Level + 23 (10 + 8 + 2 + 3)
I can convert any energy type into fire to boost the DC by three, making Create Acid Pit a DC 27 spell. Converting energy types makes the bonus DC from using Fire a huge advantage.
My Initiative would be: +15 (7 + 4 + 4) giving me excellent odds on getting my effect on the battlefield first. This could be +17 with a trait.
You can take a sorcerer dip and get the bonuses to cleric or wizard spells.
Actually I was considering a single level dip into Wizard or Oracle. Teleport as a Swift action from Conjurer or Energy Conversion from Admixture would open a lot of other options up.
12d6+25 averages 73 damage. A Maximized Fireball would be 98 damage.
Dipping a level of sorc is the primary power source behind the Paizo Boards Blaster Caster build. If you want to build a strong Direct Damage build, sorc bloodlines are the way to go...but you want Admixture wizard to switch the elemental types as needed.
==Aelryinth
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12d6+25 averages 73 damage. A Maximized Fireball would be 98 damage.
Dipping a level of sorc is the primary power source behind the Paizo Boards Blaster Caster build. If you want to build a strong Direct Damage build, sorc bloodlines are the way to go...but you want Admixture wizard to switch the elemental types as needed.
==Aelryinth
Yes, I agree. The Admixture subschool is hands down the only way to consistently blast. Because I get no particular benefits for being a Wizard as an Ifrit and many other races do, when I make that character it'll be with something different. :)
I am trying not to build a blaster. By using the Elemental(Fire) Bloodline, an Ifrit gets an effective +2 charisma for being a sorcerer to do sorcerous things. Alternate racial trait provides +4 initiative. My original inspiration was realizing an Ifrit Sorcerer using that bloodline could have a casting stat two points higher than anyone else and receive 4 pts of initiative more than anyone else. So, with some careful interplay I think I can create a surprisingly effective Fire Controller. (DC27 Acid Pit is pretty hot) In situations where I need to, I can simply -not- convert to Fire and still have a DC +1 over equivalent characters. The high DCs are a larger boon to control builds than they are to blasting ones. (Of course a high save DC is important to every caster that wants to affect others with their effects.)
If you have some ideas or feedback on that I'd love to hear them. Especially if you have some advice on Metamagic options. I'm still going over those feats and it's a lot to absorb.
12d6+25 averages 73 damage. A Maximized Fireball would be 98 damage.
Dipping a level of sorc is the primary power source behind the Paizo Boards Blaster Caster build. If you want to build a strong Direct Damage build, sorc bloodlines are the way to go...but you want Admixture wizard to switch the elemental types as needed.
==Aelryinth
I would empower it. Empowered with a rod can do 100+ damage.
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I would empower it. Empowered with a rod can do 100+ damage.
But I don't want to blast.
As far as I see it I can accomplish three things very well.
- Ridiculous Save DC's for spells I can convert (I'm sorry, it says sonic, but I converted that to fire, save vs DC(O.o) or be stunned)
- Go first with +OMG to Initiative (What do you mean 22? You rolled a 1!)
- Always act with a single dip into Diviner (Was this an ambush? Let me show you how that works...)
With those options, blasting is okay, but I have to dip admixture to get the energy conversion going, and if I do that, I might as well reverse the build and be a subpar Admixture blaster with one level of crossblooded hooligan.
Those features compliment a Controller much better. Always goes and goes first, then good luck avoiding the horrible effects coming your way.