Theurge build advice

[Cascade]

I have traditionally played melee focused characters in 3 and 3.5 so I had started a wizard at Gencon. I played the Siege special and 2 other mods and now I'm level 2 and need to plan my future. I received the Taint of the Worldwound boon and tossed it on this character. After playing a paladin for the better part of the last year in a home game, I figured I'd make something abit more dark. I have alot of the additional resource books and was planning to focus on a familiar.
This is not designed to be the ultimate power toon, however it is for society play and will be slow track as a mix it up at local game days with friends who have a fighter and a rogue, so I'd like to hold my own.

so TL:DR - society theurge build, summoner focused and party utility. Just want to vet out the rules and make sure its legit...and looking for advice.

Male Human CN
S: 7
D: 12
Con: 12
Int: 19 (+2) human
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Traits: Magical Knack (Cleric), Reactionary
Wizard Specialist - Teleportation - Opp: Divination / Necro
Starting familiar Greensting Scorpion
Cleric - Separatist - Abraxas
Domains: Chaos Forbidden: Fate Inquisition
Variant Channel: Slavery - Heal

Levels / Feats
1. Wizard / Spell focus (Conj), Augment Summon, Acadamae Graduate
2. Cleric
3. Wizard / Boon Companion
4. Wizard - stat bump to Wisdom
5. Theurge / Improved Familiar (Sprite)
6. Theurge
7. Theurge / Superior Summoning / Change Sprite to Quasit
8. Theurge - stat bump to Wisdom

not sure after that...as that would be another 36 sessions but I'd like to make sure this is all legit. Any advice on items or alternate options would be appreciated.

thanx

Cas

Edit: I know I could follow a different diety as I fall a level behind, thus odd levels are behind the spell casting curve, but I like the role playing aspect I've selected.

[Dasrak]

Quote:

society theurge build, summoner focused and party utility.

Well, you're using an early qualification approach so Mystic Theurge should work very smoothly.

Quote:

Cleric - Separatist - Abraxas

Variant Channel: Slavery - Heal

Not a legal combination; as a worshipper of an evil deity, you must channel negative energy, and you cannot select any "healing" variant as an option for negative channeling.

Quote:

4. Wizard - stat bump to Wisdom

Given your initial array, I'd strongly recommend putting all your stat bumps to intelligence and just using magical items to boost your wisdom. Your wisdom is already low enough that your DC's are going to be terrible, so don't waste your limited stat boosts on it; spend those on your intelligence instead.

Quote:

5. Theurge / Improved Familiar (Sprite)

Exactly how are you qualifying here? You don't seem to meet the 2nd level divine spellcasting requirement.

[Cascade]

Dasrak, thanks for replying.

I had missed the restriction on harm only, I will have to rethink that option....I really liked the Acadamae feat coupled with the slavery "immune to fatigue" combination.

The Fate Inquisition provides the "Augury spell" to meet 2nd level divine.

I have a boon to increase Int by +1 which should kick in around lvl 7ish. I may have to wait to make the call on stat bumps once I get to 4th based upon personal expience.

thanx again

Cas

[andreww]

If you go with Trickery (Copycat gives Mirror Image) with the fate Inquisition (Augury) then you can qualify at character level 4 and only need Wizard2/Cleric 1.

[james maissen]

Cascade wrote:

I have a boon to increase Int by +1 which should kick in around lvl 7ish.

Perfect, then when you hit 8th you'll have a base 22INT.

Think of it this way if you advance WIS at 4th, you will have:

INT 19
WIS 15

If you started with
INT 18
WIS 15

and advanced INT at 4th, then you would have another point that you could have put in another stat elsewhere.

Another thing.. you gain no benefit for the bumping of WIS whatsoever until 8th level? Its not worth it. Bump the INT, get the stat boost item for INT.. eventually get a stat boost item for WIS... but always favor the INT.

-James

[nate lange]

isn't magical knack banned in society play?

the stat advice already given is good- put your 4th level point in Int and combo your 7th level boon and 8th level point to hit 22 Int. pick up a +2 Wis item at some point and just accept that you'll never be super wise.

if you can still change your domains, andreww is right- take trickery instead and go wiz 2/cl 1/MT

if you still have the option to switch everything around, switching to almost any aasimar or tiefling variant will give a 2nd level arcane SLA (making chaos a fine domain option again). you could also switch from wiz to wildblooded sorc [empyreal] and drop your Int to maximize Wis- that way you can really focus on your one casting stat! maybe not the fluff you're looking for, just thought i'd point out the option in case it worked for you.

edit:

an archon- or garuda-blooded aasimar, or an asura-, demonad-, devil-, oni-, or qlippoth-spawn tiefling could easily start with 20 wis and go sorc 2/cleric (chaos and fate) 1/MT

[Cascade]

nate lange wrote:

isn't magical knack banned in society play?

if you can still change your domains, andreww is right- take trickery instead and go wiz 2/cl 1/MT

Magical Knack is legal...

paizo.com/threads/rzs2pivw&page=2?Balance#70

So, I really want to pursue the familiar route and I don't see any way to get Improved Familiar by 5th / 7th without having 3 levels in Wizard. The Boon Companion grants 4 levels to the class level for familiar access (as I read) but Theurge doesn't, so I'mm stuck waiting a level, which I don't mind too much.

Human is a roleplay thing that I just can't dump. I could pick Lamashtu as a diety and qualify with Trickery and Fate inquisition as an opposition school, but I just can't justify that diety with the character. Areshkagal would fit nicely but alas, it's not legal. Roleplay is important.

I'm just grateful for the advice to maximize the toon with my limited magic using experience.

I will follow the stat advice progression, that seems valid.

thanx all.

Cas

Edit, what would be some long term feats to look at past level 7?

[andreww]

Separatist Archetype lets you qualify with any Deity who has either the Fate Inquisition or Trickery Domain.

[Cascade]

andreww wrote:

Separatist Archetype lets you qualify with any Deity who has either the Fate Inquisition or Trickery Domain.

yep yep.

I have been trying to fit in a demon lord based upon my play experience at 1st level in the Worldwound events. Which is much easier if I go to level 3 wizard as I only need the Fate Inquisition opposition school...as I will already meet the arcane requirement.

[Melvin the Mediocre]

I'm planning a theurge right now myself, so while I haven't played one to see how it works out, I have some feat ideas.

Normally I am not a fan of item creation feats, but since we theurges are going to have to buy all of our arcane spells, a feat in craft rod might help counter that money lost to spell purchases and book filling. Assuming a high spell craft, you should be able to create metamagic rods without the appropriate feats.

If you can pick the Outlander trait, then the feat Extra Traits, plus outlander/Lore Seeker will let you pick 3 spells to cast at +1 caster level and +1 DC. And lets face it, if you are playing a theurge all you care about is landing spells.

The other trait I would pick up is magical lineage, but if you have already taken magical knack, ml won't be available. I'm sure there are other traits that would help you out though.

Spell focus/improved spell focus. I'm going for conjuration and evocation myself. But I want to keep my dc's high. Again, all we theruge's care about is landing spells.

Spell penetration / Greater spell penetration. Granted a lot of conjuration spells don't allow spell resistance, and you want to do some buffing, but when you need these feats, there just aint no substitute.

Rime spell or toppling spell can give you some nice control while still popping out a little damage. I wouldn't go crazy with metamagic, especially if you are going to try crafting some rods.

[RumpinRufus]

Sorry, but this plan doesn't work at all.

Mystic Theurge requires you to be able to cast 2nd-level divine spells. The Fate inquisition lets you use Augury as a spell-like ability. Using a spell-like =/= casting a spell. (Moreover, the pre-reqs say "2nd-level spells", not "2nd-level spell".)

I don't think there's any way to qualify early for MT, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[andreww]

RumpinRufus wrote:

Sorry, but this plan doesn't work at all.

Mystic Theurge requires you to be able to cast 2nd-level divine spells. The Fate inquisition lets you use Augury as a spell-like ability. Using a spell-like =/= casting a spell. (Moreover, the pre-reqs say "2nd-level spells", not "2nd-level spell".)

I don't think there's any way to qualify early for MT, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

You are several months out of date, reread the faq.

[RumpinRufus]

andreww wrote:

RumpinRufus wrote:

Sorry, but this plan doesn't work at all.

Mystic Theurge requires you to be able to cast 2nd-level divine spells. The Fate inquisition lets you use Augury as a spell-like ability. Using a spell-like =/= casting a spell. (Moreover, the pre-reqs say "2nd-level spells", not "2nd-level spell".)

I don't think there's any way to qualify early for MT, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

You are several months out of date, reread the faq.

Which FAQ post? Link?

edit: found the FAQ, but Mystic Theurge still requires you to be able to cast 2nd-level spells (plural). Being able to cast one spell (Augury) doesn't qualify you to be a Theurge.

[andreww]

RumpinRufus wrote:

andreww wrote:

RumpinRufus wrote:

Sorry, but this plan doesn't work at all.

Mystic Theurge requires you to be able to cast 2nd-level divine spells. The Fate inquisition lets you use Augury as a spell-like ability. Using a spell-like =/= casting a spell. (Moreover, the pre-reqs say "2nd-level spells", not "2nd-level spell".)

I don't think there's any way to qualify early for MT, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

You are several months out of date, reread the faq.

Which FAQ post? Link?

Quote:

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.

Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm

[nate lange]

the improved familiar feat options are based on arcane caster level... the same ruling that lets you qualify early for MT lets you take imp familiar based on the caster level of your racial SLA (which is equal to your level/HD) if you switch to an aasimar/tiefling