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HI guys,
I'm building a conjurer, of the usual stripe. Of course there is all the usual business about Augmented summons (Superior Summons not yet allowed - DM says Core and APG only, except all traits are allowed.)
Ok, so I have:
Human
Opposed = Enchantment, Necromancy
Traits = Stealth and Perception as class skills
Familiar - Dinosaur (+4 init) Starting Init = +10
1) Improved Initiative
1) Spell Focus: Conjuration
2)
3) Augmented Summoning
4)
5) Extend Spell, Craft Wondrous
6)
7) Improved Familiar (probably Fairy Dragon)
8)
9) Craft Rod
10) Quicken Spell
11) Opposition Research (Necromancy)
12)
13) Fast Study
14)
15) Craft Staff, Spell Penetration
16)
17) Greater Spell Penetration
18)
19) Feat
20) Immortality
So here's the thing. He's fine, but I get the feeling like there is some sort of creative Mo-Jo that I could be laying down in levels 9-15. I mean, sure, I can summon well, and plenty of Battlefield Control, but I mostly have that covered by level 6. Then what?
I took craft staff for flavor - I'm not attached to the feat. Fast study is there to increase flexibility (of course).
Even the first 7 levels are a bit lackluster: The early focus on summoning is great, but my campaign has 7 players (at least for now), so really, summoning is sort of redundant in this environment. Still I really like the whole teleport focus powers. Any other ideas?
Finally, I'm perfectly willing to read about how this or that feat is a good feat, but what I'm really looking for is some sort of focused capability that is driven by good feat synergy.
Thanks!
If you are eventually getting to the upper tiers of power something I have been looking forward to is the Staff-like Wand 'feat'. You can lay down a lot of effect for low cost.
Wand of Dispel Magic
Wand of Fireball (or even intensified fireball)
Wand of Magic Missie (bonus points for empowered)
Wand of Acid Arrow
There are a host of level 1-4 spells where caster-level, Save DC, or both matter. Obviously, only worth it for high use spells.
my 2cp.
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Worse possible day: Wizard has his spell book destroyed, his hands cut off, and his tongue cut out (We go DARK in my group!)
I don't see the big deal about true name. I mean, I can do planar binding anyway, and the darn thing is level limited, so what's the self-life on that power?
I'm with you on the "improved familiar vs Leadership" question. Clearly Leadership is the better feat. The problem is that with 7 players at the table it seems likely that the DM will have a hard enough time with a familiar. I do like the bonded item though, so maybe I'll skip the familiar. I'm really ambivalent.
In fact this is the real reason for the thread. I want to play a mage with good "GOD" capabilities, and it seems like bonded object and the leadership feat is really the best way to go (the familiar gives you a hit to your leadership score for your cohort). The problem is with so many players, running two characters is likely to be frowned upon at best.
Heck, I'm not even sure if I should bother with Augment Summoning, since we will have such a big party, that a bunch more targets on the battlefield probably will slow down play more than it will help combat.
So what's a "Non-Treentmonk" GOD wizard look like? Hmmm....
May I ask what the other 6 players are playing? This could help in terms of if leadership is needed at all.
I like True Name since what you summon won't really fight you and you don't really have to make a deal with it (unless you summon it a lot).
Since you're crafting you could look into Craft Arms & Armor. If you have a lot of martial characters in your group, they'll love you for it.
Personally I prefer bonded item over a familiar, but that's just personal taste. If your DM is the type to attack your bonded item, chances are he's the type to attack your familiar. I've found that the bonded item helps when you need that one perfect spell that you didn't prepare that day.
You don't seem all that excited about playing a conjurer, at least from what I've read. Are there other spells you'd prefer from a different school of magic? Illusion? Evocation? Necromancy? Transmutation? All are good. Each can be made to have aspects of the "god" wizard as well.
As for spells, I'd suggest finding at least a few blast spells you like, just for those moments when you need something in particular to die quicker or you get bored of controlling the field or there isn't a particular control spell that fits the scenario.
Really, while the "God" wizard is really good, it's not mandatory to play as when playing a wizard. Really, I'd just say pick up Improved Initiative (as you already have) and from there, do what you feel like doing.
Anyways, like The Bald Man said, just my 2cp.
Crafting is ewww. There are much better things you can do with your feats. In the long run, Improved Familiar doesn't do you too much good imo vs. having the extra +4 initiative. Stealth as a class skill? I would rather have more initiative tbh.
If you're gonna take Fast Study, take it early, otherwise you will feel like you wasted a feat (which is what you will feel like with crafting feats also). You can only craft two different rods with craft rod, I see no point in taking that feat.
Spell Specialization is absolutely fantastic for summoners, since you can switch your specialized spell later on, assuming it's of the same school. Increasing that spells CL means an extra 2 rounds on your summons.
Varisian Tattoo (Mage's Tattoo) is fantastic for the same reason, though it may not be allowed since it's form the ISWG.
Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen need to come sooner imo.
If you go the Staff like wand route, you may consider taking craft wand instead of extend spell so that you can craft a bunch of low level wands for cheap and then use your own caster level for them.
No. Keep Extend Spell.
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Thanks for all the responses.
Master Marshmallow, you are incorrect about the Rod crafting comment. The way it works is this: Caster level +10 = the DC of the craft skill needed to create the rod. Caster level is NOT a prerequisite for making the item! So once I get my Spellcraft score up to 17 (after all bonuses) I can take 10 to craft a rod I have the prerequisites for. Once I get my Spellcraft score up to 22, I can craft a rod that I am MISSING the feat for. This means that spellcraft +craft Rod gives me all the metamagic feats money can buy. Not a bad deal IMO. I should have a Spellcraft score of 19 by level 9, and a Spellcraft score of 22 by level 12.
OK, here is what I’m thinking. I really want to be a wizard (not sorcerer). I like the stealth, because lots of free teleports + hide means that I can “poof” out to cover, hide, and the enemy will never know where I’ll pop up next. So basically a guerrilla “hit and run wizard”
I agree that I need to ditch Augment summoning. Unlike Treantmonk, I’m not that big a fan of summoning spells. I know this because I’m coming back to the game after a break but I played a wizard up to 24th level back in 3.5 days. So I really have a pretty good idea of my playing style.
I’m thinking that I might ditch the familiar, take a bonded object, then focus on increasing my offensive DC’s. I’ll use conjuring for CC, and my feats for blasting (spell focus & greater spell focus). My focus will be two-fold:
1) Versatility. I want this guy to have a big bag of tricks up his sleeve
2) Hard hitting. I want this guy to be able to lay out some smack-down 2-3x per day at least
SO:
1) Improved Initiative
1) Spell Focus: Transmutation
2)
3) Spell Penetration
4)
5) Heighten Spell, Craft Wondrous
6)
7) Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation
8)
9) Greater Spell Penetration
10) Quicken Spell
11) Extra traits (Reactionary: +2 initiative & Outlander: Lore Seeker, Flesh to Stone, Chain lightning, Slow) 12)
13) Preferred Spell (Flesh to Stone)
14)
15) Dimensional Agility, Spell Perfection (Flesh to Stone)
16)
17) Craft Rod
18)
19) Craft Staff
20) Immortality
OK, so what does this get: At level 15, I can cast a quickened dimension door, to teleport into position, cast a stone to flesh that has +6 to the save DC, and +9 to overcome SR and Shift out as a swift action in the same round.
Not a bad trick. [EDIT: This doesn't work - quickened spells are swift actions not free actions - Darn! Still the rest of the build is solid]
In the addition, I have excellent ability to overcome SR, and excellent “Save or Die” abilities with my transmutation spells in general, plus I get a +1 to chain lightning and hold monster (a reflex save and a will save), and I spontaneously cast chain lighting (heightened as desired).
So do I really want to load this guy with “Flesh to Stone” or is there a better spell to build this around? An evocation or a conjuration spell would be ideal since that’s where most of the saving throws are anyway – giving my spells focus feats more bang for the buck.
What are you going to make with craft rod?
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Ok, two more offerings: We have “Darwin” and “The Doctor”
Darwin:
Darwin is a hyper-generalist, who, like his namesake is built to adapt to any situation. I’m sure Treantmonk would be proud.
1) Improved Initiative
1) Spell Focus: Conjuration
2)
3) Augmented Summoning
4)
5) Extend Spell, Craft Wondrous
6)
7) Leadership
8)
9) Heighten Spell
10) Quicken Spell
11) Spell Penetration
12)
13) Preferred Spell (Telekinesis)
14)
15) Preferred Spell (Major Creation), Preferred Spell (Polymorph Any Object)
16)
17) Greater Spell Penetration
18)
19) Feat - whatever it doesn’t matter now.
20) Immortality
_______________________________________________________________________
The Doctor:
“The Doctor” is basically a character who is built around the whole “warping spacetime” theme of the teleport subschool. He’s a much more aggressive character who works like a standard Treantmonk Conjurer at early levels, but then builds toward combining reach spell and plane shift to (and here’s the fun part) teleport enemies to other planes against their will!
1) Improved Initiative
1) Spell Focus: Conjuration
2)
3) Augment Summoning
4)
5) Extend Spell, Craft Wondrous
6)
7) Spell Penetration
8)
9) Reach Spell
10) Heighten Spell
11) Extra traits (Magical Lineage: Plane Shift & Outlander: Plane Shift, Chain Lightning, Flesh to Stone)
12)
13) Preferred Spell (Plane Shift)
14)
15) Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration, Spell Perfection (Plane Shift)
16)
17) Greater Spell Penetration
18)
19) Quicken Spell
20) Immortality
Is it optimized? Not really, you could choose a better spell to focus on than plane shift (for example Chains of Light and Ice Crystal teleport are excellent alternate spells). This would let you take quicken spell or leadership at level 9. But it would lose much in flavor.
How important is it to avoid that will saving throw at high levels? Note that Chains of Light is a reflex save.
I see a few different builds, I must say though that if you go with the one that focuses on flesh to stone and save or die spells, you could make one of the feats not yet taken Preferred Spell metamagic. That could help you get through to more people that would save on their first try.
I may be wrong but I see on the Doctor character, that you have magical lineage and it looks like you have it set up for multiple spells. I believe you can only get that trait once and use it on one spell. Unless you're retraining or have a merciful DM.
In any case, it seems like your build is starting to come into its own.
Metamagic rods.
Only rod you could make with it is a Quicken Rod, as the prerequisite on Metamagic Rods cannot be bypassed with an increased DC. It is not worth the feat to get only one item.
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OK, here’s “The Doctor” fully optimized to be a Dr. Who-like wizard.
1) Improved Initiative
1) Spell Focus: Conjuration
2)
3) Reach Spell
4)
5) Spell Penetration, Craft Wondrous
6)
7) Leadership
8)
9) Craft Rod
10) Heighten Spell
11) Extra traits (Magical Lineage: Plane Shift & Outlander: Plane Shift, Chain Lightning, Flesh to Stone)
12)
13) Preferred Spell (Plane Shift) [+2 DC, +3 SR]
14)
15) Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection (Plane Shift) [+4 DC, +5 SR]
16)
17) Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration [+6 DC, +5 SR]
18)
19) Greater Spell Penetration [+6 DC, +9 SR]
20) Immortality
There are some down sides: Quicken comes way too late in the build. Magical Lineage becomes a bit redundant after level 15. It’s there to let you cast rays of plane shift immediately at level 13. Depending on how your DM interprets spell perfection, you can either heighten plane shift up to 9th level and add reach spell after the fact or you are limited to an 8th level plane shift-ray. Still not bad for a 7th level spell slot.
The numbers in the brackets are the save DC bonus and the SR roll bonus respectively. This ONLY applies to the spell Plane Shift.
The two “Greater” spells come late in the build. This is unfortunate, but at least your saves & spell penetration will be competitive at high levels, and unstoppable for your plane shift trick.
Craft Rod – Custom-make a rod that casts: Hold portal, Knock, Detect Magic and Shatter (for the sonic screwdriver of course!). I don’t suppose most DM’s would object to this item, it’s hardly a campaign breaker. As far as I can tell Master Marshmallow is wrong about using this to create metamagic rods. So how good this is depends on which one of us is right. If MM is right, then move this feat to the end (for the sonic screwdriver), move quicken up and move Greater Spell Focus up.
Build a magic box at higher level and create a demi-plane inside it. Enchant the thing to be able to fly, and pump a LOT of money into making it as invulnerable as possible. One TARDIS.
Leadership is for the side – kick (A hot young woman of course). Make her a cleric with the Luck domain, craft wand, Quicken Spell, and the Arcane Lineage (true strike) trait. This will allow you to craft WANDS OF QUICKENED TRUE STRIKE, so you can plane-shift stuff to other dimensions without missing on that pesky ranged touch attack – just don’t roll a 1.
Is it cheese? YES but it’s flavorful cheese!
Finally we have:
Alternate Doctor (Chains of Light build)
1) Improved Initiative
1) Spell Focus: Conjuration
2)
3) Extend Spell
4)
5) Spell Penetration, Craft Wondrous
6)
7) Leadership
8)
9) Craft Rod
10) Heighten Spell
11) Preferred Spell (Chains of Light) [+1 DC, +2 SR]
12)
13) Quicken Spell
14)
15) Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Perfection (Chains of Light) [+2 DC, +8 SR]
16)
17) Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration [+4 DC, +8 SR]
18)
19) Mage’s Tattoo: Conjuration [+6 DC, +8 SR]
20) Immortality
This build is less feat dependent and it allows you to take quicken sooner, because you don’t need reach spell (since the spell already has reach). Also Chains of Light is a reflex save (which is better than will IMO). The disadvantage is the Chains of Light has a save every round. The advantage is that if you hit a spell-turning effect (HIGHLY LIKELY in my experience!), you don’t accidently send yourself to another plane of existence.