Raistlin as Mythic

[Shalafi2412]

Has anyone tried to convert the Master of Past and Present into a Pathfinder Mythic character?

[Daethor]

Not sure, but I'd like to try. Not sure how well he translates as mythic as some of the base mythic abilities like recuperation don't really fit him. I'm working on providing alternatives to the base though so maybe after that I will.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Seems like a tough challenge, I guess a very "special" writeup like Baba Yaga got would suit the character. Just Wizard/Archmage would not fit perfectly.

[Peter Stewart]

I think that mythic actually suits someone like Raistlin perfectly. It serves especially well as a source of power that goes beyond experience, especially gained by odd means - this opposed to epic which works for especially accomplished, successful, and experienced characters.

[LazarX]

Shalafi2412 wrote:

Has anyone tried to convert the Master of Past and Present into a Pathfinder Mythic character?

Keep in mind that one of the first things that Hickman and Weiss did was to throw away any pretentions of tying the Dragonlance characters to the game system.

[SeeleyOne]

LazarX wrote:

Shalafi2412 wrote:

Has anyone tried to convert the Master of Past and Present into a Pathfinder Mythic character?

Keep in mind that one of the first things that Hickman and Weiss did was to throw away any pretentions of tying the Dragonlance characters to the game system.

That is very true. I used to have the original Dragonlance hardback for AD&D. The characters had really lame attributes. I laughed when I saw Tasslehoff talk about how strong Caramon was with only an 18/53 strength. Sure, that was impressive, but the praise seemed a bit too much. There was a high priest guy of Ishtar or something with only a 14 Wisdom.

However, the most laughable part was that the gods got upset when a character surpassed 18th level, such that most characters could only go up to 18th level. This was kind of funny because in 1st edition (for which this book was written) went up to the 20's for its levels in the Player's Handbook. The Forgotten Realms characters and deities laughed at Krynn.

So Raistlin had a crappy Constitution score. Otherwise the Mythic could fit for him. And besides, the wimpy Krynn deities were afraid of him. :)

[LazarX]

I would make the heretical statement that Raistlin would be far better portrayed using the Cubicle 7 storyteller system than ANY form of D+D/Pathfinder.

[Shalafi2412]

LazarX wrote:

Shalafi2412 wrote:

Has anyone tried to convert the Master of Past and Present into a Pathfinder Mythic character?

Keep in mind that one of the first things that Hickman and Weiss did was to throw away any pretentions of tying the Dragonlance characters to the game system.

That is true but he has been statted out in 1st and 3.5 editions in official Dragonlance products.

[Lincoln Hills]

Raistlin is best represented with 1 level in Main Character Of A Novel, that elusive NPC class that renders one impervious to anything a PC might do - whether that means simple physical injury, or something far more threatening such as talking the NPC into behaving in a way other than the way the author made him behave!

[Shalafi2412]

Peter Stewart wrote:

I think that mythic actually suits someone like Raistlin perfectly. It serves especially well as a source of power that goes beyond experience, especially gained by odd means - this opposed to epic which works for especially accomplished, successful, and experienced characters.

Would his mythic moment be in Dragons of the Hourglass Mage when he and Fisty become one so that not even the gods can tell which is which?

[Shalafi2412]

Daethor wrote:

Not sure, but I'd like to try. Not sure how well he translates as mythic as some of the base mythic abilities like recuperation don't really fit him. I'm working on providing alternatives to the base though so maybe after that I will.

I wonder how to handle the fact that in 3.5 he has level in Black Robe but from my understanding as a renegade does not qualify for the benefits.

[Captain K.]

If Raistlin had been PF Mythic he'd have won by the end of Dragons of Autumn Twilight.

This would have been good for everyone, Krynn, his whiny friends, us unfortunate readers.

[Shalafi2412]

I don't agree, Captain. The Raistlin in Chronciles and Lost Chronicles is very different from the Raistlin of Legends, Summer Flame and the Next Generation story. I don't think that he would become mythic until he was was able to defeat Fisty at the end of Hourglass Mage.

[Captain K.]

That was tongue in cheek about comparative PF power levels to AD&D. I agree with you that he gets his first Mythic tier as a gift from the big GM In the sky after beating Fisty. All that business with Caramon shooting lightning bolts is serious drama and worth a power boost.

Bonus: Did you know the drow who poison stabs Raistlin in that encounter is called Liam? I have never taken the drow to be Irish, but Krynn is a wacky place.

[Lincoln Hills]

Och aye, many's the time in County Shannon that the drow and I would walk in the fields, a-countin' of the sheep and talkin' of simple things.

[Shalafi2412]

Drow in this case are Krynnish dark elves. I don't think that Raistlin would get his epic epiphany until towards the end of the War of the Lance, right before he meets Caramon in the Dungeons of Neraka.

[LazarX]

Shalafi2412 wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Shalafi2412 wrote:

Has anyone tried to convert the Master of Past and Present into a Pathfinder Mythic character?

Keep in mind that one of the first things that Hickman and Weiss did was to throw away any pretentions of tying the Dragonlance characters to the game system.

That is true but he has been statted out in 1st and 3.5 editions in official Dragonlance products.

That doesn't change anything. Those Raistlin game characters have very little in common with the Raistlin of the novels, as anything more than a casual perusal would make obvious. I could stat Raistlin as a fighter and he'd only be slightly more out of touch with the novel Raistlin than those printed stats.

[Shalafi2412]

I do know that games and novels do not always translate well since they are different mediums. That does not change the fact that these are official stats from Margaret Weis Productions, whether we agree with them or not.

[Silas Hawkwinter]

Its funny how much dragonlance has in common with star wars in that the original trilogy was great, never mind the rest.

I agree that trying to stat Raistlin out as a game character isn't going to work.

[Shalafi2412]

The stuff by Weis and Hickman is great. Some of the other authors like Pierson and the Knaak had some good stuff. The other tends to be hit and miss.

[SeeleyOne]

I read the first two trilogies in 8th grade. I tried to read the others but I just could not get into them. I had suspected that the first trilogy was based on a campaign that they ran for their gaming group, and that the stats in the book were from their actual character sheets. In 1st edition stats did not matter quite as much as (progressively) the later editions.

I still sneer at the Krynn deities being so wimpy and requiring a level cap in the world. :)

[Silas Hawkwinter]

I've had a theory that Krynn turns into Darksun, if so have a bit of pity ;)

[ShadowcatX]

Funny you should mention that Silas, Darksun and Dragonlance are both addressed in Planescape. The wizards of dragonlance are looked down upon as weak for requiring a connection to their moon. Meanwhile the defilers of darksun are admired for their destructive capability by the fiends, and the preservers are admired by the celestials for their restraint. So no, one doesn't turn into the other.

[SeeleyOne]

But it is a good theory, and it can be valid in our home games. :D

[Shalafi2412]

Lots of the worlds were addressed in 2nd edition Planescapes. My understanding is that in official 3.0/3.5 cosmology, the worlds are now unique unto themselves.

[Lincoln Hills]

And while I understand why they did it (each world "deserved" its own comology and afterlife and so on), I lament the days when campaign worlds were closer - not least because there was an understanding that if you - the player - moved to a new town and set up with a new AD&D group, there was a "justification" for your character migrating across planes and starting a new career elsewhere.

Not that that was universally good, the quality of DMs and players in those days being just as varied as it is now. But it was neighborly in its way.

Nowadays, of course, assuming one finds a campaign willing to admit a pre-existing PC, an even greater suspension of disbelief is involved: 'You're still on exactly the same plane, but all your fellow PCs and most of the NPCs you knew mysteriously vanished, and the written-in-canon NPCs no longer remember any favors they owe you.'

Dang it! I'm sorry, I swear I don't mean to derail this thread about... um... (checks the top of the thread) Raistlin. Just being nostalgic and grumpy. Carry on.

[Aku-Arkaine]

Silas Hawkwinter wrote:

I've had a theory that Krynn turns into Darksun, if so have a bit of pity ;)

It is pointed out in Spelljammer that they are in different crystal spheres. Krynnspace is part of the Triad, while Dark Sun is so far out that it can't be reached spelljamming.

[Coarthios]

I love the Dragonlance world - particularly pre-Takhisis world-thieving. Not a fan of the post war of souls world at all, though...

[clff rice]

I think That the post war of souls is good for krynn as a campaign world (not so much a literary world) By the time the companions had their run of krynn all the adventuring had been done. Now that all of them are dead and the timeline is advanced new stuff can happen without the companions fingerprints allover it.

[ParagonDireRaccoon]

Here's my attempt:

Raistlin Archmage mythic progress

Path abilities
1 Competent Caster
2 Perfect Preparation
3 Eldritch Breach
4 Component Freedom
5 Arcane Metmastery
6 Divine Knowledge
7 Sanctum
8 Channel Power
9 Rapid Preparation
10 Mirror Dodge

Mythic Feats
1 Eschew Materials (Mythic)
3 Extra Mythic Power- Longevity
5 Ascendant Spell
7 Augment Summoning (Mythic)
9 Mythic Spell Lore

[ParagonDireRaccoon]

I took a few liberties, trying to balance what makes an effective character against staying true to the novels. I don't remember Raistlin summoning any creatures, but I read the War of the Lance and Time of the Twins novels over twenty years ago.

It's tough to convert novels into game mechanics. Sometimes major characters don't stat up well, Caramon is a good example. His 18/53 Str was exceptional and much higher than most of the NPCs in the hardcover 1E book. Ariakas was described as being strong enough to throw a spear throw a horse, but I think he had a Str of 14. Alignment is particularly difficult, sometimes characters make poor decisions that advance the story but their alignment would translate to lawful stupid (Ned Stark, poster boy for lawful stupid alignment) or chaotic (stupid) evil (more stupidity to follow), like many villains from novels.

I've run a few Dragonlance one-shots over the years set just after the War of the Lance. I rewrite some of what happens just after the war, and call it 'A Moment in Time.' The Dragonarmies are still around and running a few nations. My modifications include mostly intact spy networks operated by each Dragonarmy and Ariakas separately. The Blue Dragonarmy teams up with the minotaurs and is building an empire through economics, controlling a significant part of the shipping trade. They move in and help rebuild war-torn areas, and incorporate them into their empire after rebuilding them (think Allies post-WWII). The Red Dragonarmy still seeks to conquer nations by force, and lieutenants and generals from other Dragonarmies will join them, so the Red Dragonarmy is a mini-version of Takhisis's forces. Palanthus is capitalizing on its neutrality, having been untouched by the War (partly because it is favored by the Gods of Neutrality). The noble families of Palanthus make money off of the rebuilding of other nations (think Haliburton in our continuing wars in the Middle East). Meanwhile, some Palanthus nobles created mercenary companies, hiring young men from across the continent (so they got paid as mercenaries rather than being conscripted). Now that the War of the Lance is over, Palanthus profits from continuing warfare, and a lot of able-bodied men are working as mercenaries rather than rebuilding their farms and cities. This creates opportunities for women (think WWII, when many women entered the workforce while men were overseas fighting). So Dragonarmies and individual opportunities are taking advantage of the ongoing conflicts after the war, and looking for artifacts and conquering nearby towns and cities and creating campaign material. I took the adventures in the World of Krynn 1E module and expanded them into a mini-campaign.