Mergy, no FAQ I have seen. I think they are counting the unofficial clarifications.
- Gauss
Stacking aid another is how swarms of low-level NPCs remain threatening against high-level adventurers.
A bunch of goblins using Aid Another to help their chief hit the party Fighter is kind of a different situation from the PCs conspiring to make each other "unhittable". Maybe I shouldn't worry about it too much though. My primary goal in this thread was to verify that our current use of the Benevolent armor enchantment is in fact legit. I think that most folks agree it is. One or two seem to feel that maybe even one Bodyguard with Benevolent armor is a little over the top while others seem to feel that there is no top to go over.
I guess maybe my home groups will have to struggle with that age old question of "What's reasonable?" rather than going with the easy out of "What's legal?" I like it best when those two are close enough together that players can feel good instead of guilty about finding interesting combinations and developing effective builds.
A bunch of goblins using Aid Another to help their chief hit the party Fighter is kind of a different situation from the PCs conspiring to make each other "unhittable". Maybe I shouldn't worry about it too much though. My primary goal in this thread was to verify that our current use of the Benevolent armor enchantment is in fact legit. I think that most folks agree it is. One or two seem to feel that maybe even one Bodyguard with Benevolent armor is a little over the top while others seem to feel that there is no top to go over.
I guess maybe my home groups will have to struggle with that age old question of "What's reasonable?" rather than going with the easy out of "What's legal?" I like it best when those two are close enough together that players can feel good instead of guilty about finding interesting combinations and developing effective builds.
That's what the game is all about; finding interesting and effective combinations to counter other ones. At least, when you simply go by the numbers, which some don't.
At this point, you shouldn't feel guilty until the combination ruins the fun of the game. If the combo can be beatable, it is by no means unreasonable to do. After all, AC is only one small part of defense.
On the topic of AC and what is reasonable.
A Druid in my weekend group had just hit level 7 and wanted to change her Bird Animal Companion to a Roc Animal Companion. Then we looked at what that would do the the AC of her Animal Companion and as a group we agreed it was too much.
Our group averages a 22 (20-24) AC while the Roc would have a 30 AC. In order to have a chance to hit the Roc (a significant element of our melee power) the GM would have to ramp up the monsters to the point where they would shred the rest of us. As a group we instead decided to give the Druid a medium sized version of her current Animal Companion which would have an AC of 25 using the same equipment as the Roc would have had.
Summary: While yes, AC is only one component of defense having it so high that the GM has to figure out ways to allow monsters to hit without killing everyone else is a major headache. Alternately, having to figure out non-attack options that reasonably deal with a creature having a high AC, without the solution becoming a tired refrain, would also be a headache.
As a group we decided not to inflict that headache upon the GM even though a Roc would have been 'cool'. If only my Wednesday players were so kind. :)
- Gauss
Unruly - I wish you well and hope that you'll have fun with Bodyguard. I know I have.
Gauss - It is really a different topic, but the high AC of animal companions and eidolons is something I've seen discussed a few times in gaming groups over the years. It takes very little effort to boost their AC to 30 or above, and honestly it gets there eventually even with no effort at all. I've been going under the assumption that this is "normal and expected". I figure that maybe the idea is that since these creatures tend to have lower HP they should have higher AC. Clearly their AC is high enough to bother some DMs though.
Devilkiller, it is a different topic than the OP topic yes, but it is the same issue as with Benevolent+Bodyguard resulting in a major boost to high levels. I was using a related example to illustrate a point. :)
- Gauss
Gauss - Yeah, it is obviously not a big deal, but this thread has already had a pretty good run. Maybe I'll start a new one about animal companion and eidolon AC tonight if I get a chance. I guess that discussion should probably go under Advice or General Discussion instead of Rules Questions though.
If you can grab arcane strike there is a pair of magical gloves in the equipment guide that adds your arcane strike damage to the AC bonus you give when using aid another.
Could net you an additional +5 to AC by 20th level.
Yes, I'm aware of the gloves and have some potential plans to use them with a future PC. There are a lot of options to boost Aid Another now, which is why I'm concerned about the fact it all seems to stack.
Actually I think it's quite cool and am not worried about it. Only some characters will be ready to invest into a high enough dex plus two or three feats plus money plus blocking the hand slot with items.
It's quite cinematic and appropriate when weaker PCs can stand against the assault of strong, mostly at least large, opponents. It furthers cooperation.
I still find it strange that you do not need to be adjacent to the enemy as well - it's a balancer...
Indirectly it increases the value of maneuvers and spells.
Ah, nevermind, just saw that it's not official you do not have to be adjacent for bodyguard.
Still, gotta make a good build for bodyguard now, this really looks interesting. I like characters that strengthen and aid others, so this looks just like it's something I like :-)
Ah, nevermind, just saw that it's not official you do not have to be adjacent for bodyguard.
Still, gotta make a good build for bodyguard now, this really looks interesting. I like characters that strengthen and aid others, so this looks just like it's something I like :-)
By rights, it is true that it is "unofficial" to say Bodyguard disregards the rules of Aid Another, though the RAW and the intent of the feat stated by the creator of the feat himself (who works for Paizo) seems proof enough for me.
Yes, I'm aware of the gloves and have some potential plans to use them with a future PC. There are a lot of options to boost Aid Another now, which is why I'm concerned about the fact it all seems to stack.
I've never seen it be too huge of a problem compared to anything else that is possible in game already.
That said, I don't play at your table and I understand that what works for one group doesn't always work for another.