Can samurai / fighter Monk THF and TWF if I do this? It's for PFS

[jfkg306]

I'm Trying to make a two-handed fighter that an also evade (you will find having my characters have evasion is kind of a thing for me).

So here's the Gist:
Lvl 1 - Samurai or Fighter - Power attack, Shield of Swings, Two weapon Fighting.
Lvl 2 - Monk - Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike,

The game states a monk's unarmed strikes can come from fists, elbows, knees and feet AND that a monk's hands are never considered full for the purpose of Unarmed Strikes.

I know that flurry is a no go, but can I use Two-weapon fighting in the following way:

1. Attack with my two handed sword, then TWF and kick someone with the Monk's Improved Unarmed Strike?

Weapon 1: Two Handed Sword/Samurai Sword
Weapon 2: Samurai (Monk) Kick

Is this possible with a two-handed weapon?

Is it possible if I change the weapon to a one handed weapon, i.e. a katana wielded in one hand and an unarmed strike?

[Mojorat]

I dont think it is possible. Or i should say i always tboght it was but there was a ruling involving 2h weapons and armor spikes. I assume based on that ruling that this trick doesnt work.but i havent looked at the exact wording of the ruling however.

[Kazaan]

The thing is that the ruling on two-handed weapons is that they not only occupy two physical hands, meaning you can't wield weapons in those hands, they also subsume the "effort" of making both a main-hand and off-hand attack. This is why, even if you did have a weapon that didn't even rely on the hands such as armor spikes, boot blade, boulder helmet, etc. you still can't make an off-hand attack because that off-hand attack was subsumed in the attack involving the two-handed weapon. However, it was tentatively confirmed by the devs that you can think of it as "off-hand debt" and "1-h debt" in such a way that just attacking with a weapon two-handed doesn't necessarily preclude all possibility of making off-hand attacks. To illustrate:

Say you have Bab +6 (2 iterative attacks), ITWF (2 off-hands), IUS, a Katana (with proficiency), and +10 net attack bonus (including Bab) for both Katana and Unarmed Strike, for the sake of example. Normally, with 2 iterative attacks, you can make two attacks with any combo of Katana and Unarmed Strike and your Katana attacks can be 1-h or 2-h at your discretion. So, you're allowed the following:

Katana (1-h or 2-h) +10/Katana (1-h or 2-h) +5
Katana (1-h or 2-h) +10/Unarmed Strike +5
Unarmed Strike +10/Katana (1-h or 2-h) +5
Unarmed Strike +10/Unarmed Strike +5

None of these are considered off-hand attacks because you're only taking your BAB allowance of two iterative attacks. You suffer no TWF penalties and all attacks get full Str bonus to damage; 1.5x bonus for 2-h katana attacks. Now, you want to leverage your off-hands. You have the following sequences, presuming you designate Unarmed Strike as your off-hand:

Katana (1-h) +8/Katana (1-h) +3/US +8/US +3
Katana (1-h) +8/US +8/Katana (1-h) +3/US +3
Katana (1-h) +8/US +8/US +3/Katana (1-h) +3
US +8/Katana (1-h) +8/Katana (1-h) +3/US +3
US +8/Katana (1-h) +8/US +3/Katana (1-h) +3
US +8/US +3/Katana (1-h) +8/Katana (1-h) +3
Katana (2-h) +8/US +3/Katana (1-h or 2-h) +3 (you forego your +8 US because of "off-hand debt" from previous 2-h katana)
US +8/Katana (1-h) +8/Katana (2-h) +3 (you have a "1-h debt" requiring you to attack 1-h with the first katana attack after making an off-hand attack, followed by a 2-h Katana at the cost of your second off-hand attack)

[Claxon]

Yeah, I think the generally gist of the ruling is that you cannot combine two weapon fighting and two handed weapons baring using flurry of blow with monk weapons, a few of which are two handed.

In any event, I'm very certain you can't TWF using a twp-handed sword and an unarmed strike.

If you used a one handed weapon, such as a katana and wield it in only one hand, then you could use that and an unarmed strike to TWF.

If you choose not to TWF and only have a number of attacks based purely on the iterative attacks you get from BAB then you could combine a virtually any mixture of unarmed strikes and weapon attacks without problem.

[jfkg306]

So I can with a 1-handed weapon, but not with a 2 hander. Got it.

So that means that at any point during wielding the 2 handed weapon I can do either of the following:

1 - Just hold the sword in both hands and make 2, two weapon fighting kick instead.
2 - Swing with the two handed sword. Right?

[Kazaan]

jfkg306 wrote:

So I can with a 1-handed weapon, but not with a 2 hander. Got it.

So that means that at any point during wielding the 2 handed weapon I can do either of the following:

1 - Just hold the sword in both hands and make 2, two weapon fighting kick instead.
2 - Swing with the two handed sword. Right?

If you're holding a 2-h weapon (ie. a Greatsword), then yes, you have all the option to either make a single attack with the sword, or TWF with Unarmed Strikes which, mind you, need not be associated with any particular part, though they can be when an ability demands it (ie. Spell Combat).