here are 2 new spells I would like to present to everyone to critique. Feel free to comment or use them if you want.
Natural Armor spell for arcane casters. I think its pretty balanced.
Hard Skin
School Transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of cured troll hide)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no (harmless)
The skin stiffens and hardens giving the target +1 Natural Armor +1 / 5 caster levels to a maximum of +5 at 20th Level.
Based from the Divine spell, barkskin but converted to arcane standards.
I have heard quite a bit about crafting scrolls/magic items that are less than 1000gp in cost and the rule that states only 1 magic item per day. I figure this would compensate for those restrictions.
Ghost Self
School Evocation; Level Cleric 5, Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Casting Time: 1 Minute
Components V, S, M (bits of hair and nails from yourself)
Area of Effect: 30 Feet
Target: Self
Duration: 8 hrs
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no
Upon casting Ghost Self the caster creates a ghost-like imitation of himself. Everything is identical with the exception of Level. For the duration of this spell, the caster and the Ghost split the casters class level with odd levels staying with the caster. I.E.. 9th level Sorcerer casts Ghost Self. Caster is considered a 5th level caster and the Ghost as a 4th.
For the duration the ghost self imitates all actions of the caster. The purpose of this spell is to create an additional scroll per day than the caster could normally do. All materials of the scrolls to be made must be available. Scribe costs are doubled. The Ghost Self can only scribe the same spell as the caster. This can only be used to scribe an additional scroll defined by ½ castor level or below. Not to exceed 500 gp each finished scroll.
Any interruption of the caster ends the spell immediately with ½ the materials lost.
Hard skin
Is basically a weaker version of mage armor until level 16, when it evens out so why would I take that?
Ghost Self
Ok I get the idea, I believe a previous edition of D&D had a spell called copy that did what you are suggestiing
Tin Foil Yamakah wrote: Hard skin
Is basically a weaker version of mage armor until level 16, when it evens out so why would I take that?
It's natural armor as opposed to armor... so it would stack. This is essentially an arcane version of the Barkskin spell and so it should be comapared to that. Which puts it as I see it as one or two levels too low, it should be 2nd or 3rd.
Shoga wrote:
Natural Armor spell for arcane casters. I think its pretty balanced.
Why do wizards get early entry to something like the Barkskin spell? If anything, I think you should just add Barkskin to the wizard list, but late, because it fits the druid theme better.
Quote:
I have heard quite a bit about crafting scrolls/magic items that are less than 1000gp in cost and the rule that states only 1 magic item per day. I figure this would compensate for those restrictions.
Why is this a spell and not a feat? Any why all the fluff about an evocation spell? If anything, this specific fluff should be a conjuration spell as you're "creating a ghost-like imitation of yourself." Evocation makes pure elemental forces, like fire. (It would also work as an illustion(shadow) spell.)
But, really, it should be a straight up transformation spell that duplicates a scroll as it's being written.
It's also wickedly overpowered (the old D&D Amanuensis spell did less -- it couldn't copy scrolls, only mundane writings) and was still a third-level spell.
First, this should be in homebrew, not advice.
Shoga wrote: here are 2 new spells I would like to present to everyone to critique. Feel free to comment or use them if you want.
Natural Armor spell for arcane casters. I think its pretty balanced.
Hard Skin
School Transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of cured troll hide)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no (harmless)
The skin stiffens and hardens giving the target +1 Natural Armor +1 / 5 caster levels to a maximum of +5 at 20th Level.
Based from the Divine spell, barkskin but converted to arcane standards.
Wow. No. You take one of the druid's premiere second level spells, make it better, make it lower level, give it to a different class who doesn't have access to anything like that, and call it balanced? Not even close.
Quote: I have heard quite a bit about crafting scrolls/magic items that are less than 1000gp in cost and the rule that states only 1 magic item per day. I figure this would compensate for those restrictions.
Ghost Self
School Evocation; Level Cleric 5, Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Casting Time: 1 Minute
Components V, S, M (bits of hair and nails from yourself)
Area of Effect: 30 Feet
Target: Self
Duration: 8 hrs
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no
Upon casting Ghost Self the caster creates a ghost-like imitation of himself. Everything is identical with the exception of Level. For the duration of this spell, the caster and the Ghost split the casters class level with odd levels staying with the caster. I.E.. 9th level Sorcerer casts Ghost Self. Caster is considered a 5th level caster and the Ghost as a 4th.
For the duration the ghost self imitates all actions of the caster. The purpose of this spell is to create an additional scroll per day than the caster could normally do. All materials of the scrolls to be made must be available. Scribe costs are doubled. The Ghost Self can only scribe the same spell as the caster. This can only be used to scribe an additional scroll defined by ½ castor level or below. Not to exceed 500 gp each finished scroll.
Any interruption of the caster ends the spell immediately with ½ the materials lost.
LOL. You think magic item creation isn't good enough and needs to be better? Really? Are we playing the same game?
Tin Foil Yamakah wrote: Hard skin
Is basically a weaker version of mage armor until level 16, when it evens out so why would I take that?
Ghost Self
Ok I get the idea, I believe a previous edition of D&D had a spell called copy that did what you are suggestiing
Natural armor instead of just armor.
LazarX wrote: Tin Foil Yamakah wrote: Hard skin
Is basically a weaker version of mage armor until level 16, when it evens out so why would I take that?
It's natural armor as opposed to armor... so it would stack. This is essentially an arcane version of the Barkskin spell and so it should be comapared to that. Which puts it as I see it as one or two levels too low, it should be 2nd or 3rd. Its first b/c it only gives +1 vs Druid/Ranger gets +2. And arcane casters only get a +1 every 5 levels vs Divine at every 3 levels.
Shoga wrote: LazarX wrote: Tin Foil Yamakah wrote: Hard skin
Is basically a weaker version of mage armor until level 16, when it evens out so why would I take that?
It's natural armor as opposed to armor... so it would stack. This is essentially an arcane version of the Barkskin spell and so it should be comapared to that. Which puts it as I see it as one or two levels too low, it should be 2nd or 3rd. Its first b/c it only gives +1 vs Druid/Ranger gets +2. And arcane casters only get a +1 every 5 levels vs Divine at every 3 levels. But it's also effectively lifting a spell effect from another class and realm, so I'd still have it a 2nd level.
Ghost Self, there's no way the spell would be made into an acceptable form in my campaigns. I'm of the opinion that magic item creation is already exteremely easy street in Pathfinder. It needs no further boosts.
Orfamay Quest wrote: Shoga wrote:
Natural Armor spell for arcane casters. I think its pretty balanced.
Why do wizards get early entry to something like the Barkskin spell? If anything, I think you should just add Barkskin to the wizard list, but late, because it fits the druid theme better.
Quote:
I have heard quite a bit about crafting scrolls/magic items that are less than 1000gp in cost and the rule that states only 1 magic item per day. I figure this would compensate for those restrictions.
Why is this a spell and not a feat? Any why all the fluff about an evocation spell? If anything, this specific fluff should be a conjuration spell as you're "creating a ghost-like imitation of yourself." Evocation makes pure elemental forces, like fire. (It would also work as an illustion(shadow) spell.)
But, really, it should be a straight up transformation spell that duplicates a scroll as it's being written.
It's also wickedly overpowered (the old D&D Amanuensis spell did less -- it couldn't copy scrolls, only mundane writings) and was still a third-level spell.
Conjuration or Illusion would be ok to change it to.
Considering its a 5th level spell, works only to duplicate a scroll of less than 4th level and your splitting your levels with the Ghost so you would still have to be 8th level to duplicate a 4th level spell. All in all, basically 2 characters (PC and ghost) crafting 2 scrolls of the same name.
ShadowcatX wrote: First, this should be in homebrew, not advice.
Shoga wrote: here are 2 new spells I would like to present to everyone to critique. Feel free to comment or use them if you want.
Natural Armor spell for arcane casters. I think its pretty balanced.
Hard Skin
School Transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of cured troll hide)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no (harmless)
The skin stiffens and hardens giving the target +1 Natural Armor +1 / 5 caster levels to a maximum of +5 at 20th Level.
Based from the Divine spell, barkskin but converted to arcane standards.
Wow. No. You take one of the druid's premiere second level spells, make it better, make it lower level, give it to a different class who doesn't have access to anything like that, and call it balanced? Not even close.
Obviously, you missed some info on the comparison.
Sorcerer/Wizard 1st
+1 Natural Armor +1/5 levels
Druid/Ranger 2nd
+2 Natural Armor +1/3 Levels
Quote: I have heard quite a bit about crafting scrolls/magic items that are less than 1000gp in cost and the rule that states only 1 magic item per day. I figure this would compensate for those restrictions.
Ghost Self
School Evocation; Level Cleric 5, Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Casting Time: 1 Minute
Components V, S, M (bits of hair and nails from yourself)
Area of Effect: 30 Feet
Target: Self
Duration: 8 hrs
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no
Upon casting Ghost Self the caster creates a ghost-like imitation of himself. Everything is identical with the exception of Level. For the duration of this spell, the caster and the Ghost split the casters class level with odd levels staying with the caster. I.E.. 9th level Sorcerer casts Ghost Self. Caster is considered a 5th level caster and the Ghost as a 4th.
For the duration the ghost self imitates all actions of the caster. The purpose of this spell is to create an additional scroll per day than the caster could normally do. All materials of the scrolls to be made must be
... Point taken on moving it to Homebrew.
2ndly, Along the same lines as only 1 magic item per day applies to scrolls as well. So a 25gp scroll is only 1 per day. Seems kinda odd to me thank you.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shoga wrote: ShadowcatX wrote: First, this should be in homebrew, not advice.
Shoga wrote: here are 2 new spells I would like to present to everyone to critique. Feel free to comment or use them if you want.
Natural Armor spell for arcane casters. I think its pretty balanced.
Hard Skin
School Transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of cured troll hide)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no (harmless)
The skin stiffens and hardens giving the target +1 Natural Armor +1 / 5 caster levels to a maximum of +5 at 20th Level.
Based from the Divine spell, barkskin but converted to arcane standards.
Wow. No. You take one of the druid's premiere second level spells, make it better, make it lower level, give it to a different class who doesn't have access to anything like that, and call it balanced? Not even close.
Obviously, you missed some info on the comparison.
Sorcerer/Wizard 1st
+1 Natural Armor +1/5 levels
Druid/Ranger 2nd
+2 Natural Armor +1/3 Levels I think the thing that hits me on this is that Hard Skin is hour/level while Barkskin is 10 min/level. This spell is, as a result, drastically better than Barkskin at 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 20th level. It's also a level lower and (in my opinion) doesn't fit the class as well.
I'd suggest either dropping it to 1 min/level or increasing its level to at least 2.
p.s. I'm assuming that it's an enhancement bonus to natural armor rather than actual natural armor. If I'm wrong, it stacks with Barkskin and that makes it a must-have for everyone rather than being a longer-lasting less effective substitute for Barkskin.
LazarX wrote: Shoga wrote: LazarX wrote: Tin Foil Yamakah wrote: Hard skin
Is basically a weaker version of mage armor until level 16, when it evens out so why would I take that?
It's natural armor as opposed to armor... so it would stack. This is essentially an arcane version of the Barkskin spell and so it should be comapared to that. Which puts it as I see it as one or two levels too low, it should be 2nd or 3rd. Its first b/c it only gives +1 vs Druid/Ranger gets +2. And arcane casters only get a +1 every 5 levels vs Divine at every 3 levels. But it's also effectively lifting a spell effect from another class and realm, so I'd still have it a 2nd level.
Ghost Self, there's no way the spell would be made into an acceptable form in my campaigns. I'm of the opinion that magic item creation is already exteremely easy street in Pathfinder. It needs no further boosts. ok, changing it to 2nd level wouldn't be a deal-breaker for Hard Skin.
Ghost Self is for scrolls only so it wouldn't effect any other type of magic item creation.
I believe the workaround to the "1 item per day" limit is that you can place multiple spells on one scroll. Thus you can craft one scroll with 4 spells totaling 1000GP base cost in the same time it takes you to make one scroll with 1 spell totaling 1000GP. I could be wrong on that, though.
Agree that the barkskin variant is probably best off as just importing Barkskin as a 3rd level arcane spell. Druids get barkskin early, wizards get dispel magic early; that's generally the way it goes.
Ghost Self spell definitely needs work. Be very careful with "splitting caster levels," as that leads to a whole bunch of awkward rules questions regarding caster levels, prepared spells, etc. The flavor seems somewhere between Ethereal Jaunt and Project Image - I'd take a look at those for inspiration if you want to rework it.
ok, so far I have these changes in mind.
Hard Skin
School Transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of cured troll hide)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no (harmless)
The skin stiffens and hardens giving the target +1 Enhancement to Natural Armor +1 / 5 caster levels to a maximum of +5 at 20th Level.
2nd level from 1st. Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor not stackable with Barkskin.
School Illusion (Shadow); Level Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Casting Time: 1 Minute
Components V, S, M (bits of hair and nails from yourself)
Area of Effect: 30 Feet
Target: Self
Duration: 8 hrs
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no
Upon casting Ghost Self the caster creates a ghost-like imitation of himself. Everything is identical with the exception of Level. For the duration of this spell, the caster and the Ghost split the casters class level with odd levels staying with the caster. I.E.. 9th level Sorcerer casts Ghost Self. Caster is considered a 5th level caster and the Ghost as a 4th.
For the duration the ghost self imitates all actions of the caster. The purpose of this spell is to create an additional scroll per day than the caster could normally do. All materials of the scrolls to be made must be available. Scribe costs are doubled. If there are no additional materials the spell fails. The Ghost Self can only scribe the same spell as the caster. This can only be used to scribe an additional scroll defined by ½ castor level or below. Not to exceed 500 gp each finished scroll.
Any interruption of the caster ends the spell immediately with ½ the materials lost.
Changed school from Evocation to Illusion (Shadow).
Reynard_the_fox wrote: I believe the workaround to the "1 item per day" limit is that you can place multiple spells on one scroll. Thus you can craft one scroll with 4 spells totaling 1000GP base cost in the same time it takes you to make one scroll with 1 spell totaling 1000GP. I could be wrong on that, though.
Agree that the barkskin variant is probably best off as just importing Barkskin as a 3rd level arcane spell. Druids get barkskin early, wizards get dispel magic early; that's generally the way it goes.
Ghost Self spell definitely needs work. Be very careful with "splitting caster levels," as that leads to a whole bunch of awkward rules questions regarding caster levels, prepared spells, etc. The flavor seems somewhere between Ethereal Jaunt and Project Image - I'd take a look at those for inspiration if you want to rework it.
Where does it have written on the workaround?
Thing is, though, the fact that it doesn't stack with Barkskin doesn't really impact the power level, since wizards don't have Barkskin in the first place. Hour/level also makes this arguably more powerful than barkskin, even with the slightly lower bonuses.
Also, "Ghost Self" seems like a strange name for this spell. Might I suggest "Shadow Scribe"?
EDIT: As to the "workaround," it's not really specifically stated anywhere. This is definitely subject to GM fiat, but IMO the grammar is loose enough that it's a legit reading of the rules, and IMO it's not terribly overpowered. Here are the relevant texts:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/scribe-scroll-item-creati on---final
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/scrolls
Reynard_the_fox wrote: Thing is, though, the fact that it doesn't stack with Barkskin doesn't really impact the power level, since wizards don't have Barkskin in the first place. Hour/level also makes this arguably more powerful than barkskin, even with the slightly lower bonuses.
Also, "Ghost Self" seems like a strange name for this spell. Might I suggest "Shadow Scribe"?
I adjusted that to incorporate someones elses post on stackable must-haves with druids and sorcerer/wizards pc's.
Shadow Scribe would be an awesome name.. I hadn't thought to much on the name obviously.
You can create up to 4 scrolls a day, depending on the cost. If the cost of the scroll is 250gp or less, it only takes 2 hours to scribe the scroll. Mind you, you can only ever devote 8 hours a day to item creation, so 4 is the most you can make.
Scribe Scroll
While 250gp doesn't allow you to do much, the idea of crafting 8 scrolls in a day with your spell could be rather... Impressive, to say the least. I wouldn't let my players have it.
Zarzuakar wrote: You can create up to 4 scrolls a day, depending on the cost. If the cost of the scroll is 250gp or less, it only takes 2 hours to scribe the scroll. Mind you, you can only ever devote 8 hours a day to item creation, so 4 is the most you can make.
Scribe Scroll
While 250gp doesn't allow you to do much, the idea of crafting 8 scrolls in a day with your spell could be rather... Impressive, to say the least. I wouldn't let my players have it.
Ah, I didn't mean to imply that one prepared spell could be turned into a scroll with 8 spells - merely that 8 prepared spells could be turned into a scroll with said spells, rather than only being able to make 1/day. There's definitely no getting "free spells" out of it - just a more convenient way to store spells you've already prepared for use on a later day.
Zarzuakar wrote: You can create up to 4 scrolls a day, depending on the cost. If the cost of the scroll is 250gp or less, it only takes 2 hours to scribe the scroll. Mind you, you can only ever devote 8 hours a day to item creation, so 4 is the most you can make.
Scribe Scroll
While 250gp doesn't allow you to do much, the idea of crafting 8 scrolls in a day with your spell could be rather... Impressive, to say the least. I wouldn't let my players have it.
Nope, sorry... 1 scroll per day... just like any other magic item. Cost has no basis.
Page 549 of Pathfinder core book. Left column, towards the bottom.
"Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day."
Shoga wrote: Nope, sorry... 1 scroll per day... just like any other magic item. Cost has no basis.
Page 549 of Pathfinder core book. Left column, towards the bottom.
"Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day."
Whoops, my bad. In which case, my group is going to conveniently overlook that final bit. I'll agree that creating a cantrip scroll, and it being all I can make that day, is silly. However, with the fact that we're ignoring the rule of one a day, it only reconfirms the fact that we wouldn't use the spell you're proposing. That's still too much, in our opinion. A wizard that takes the scroll master archetype would get way too much use out of it.
Zarzuakar wrote: Shoga wrote: Nope, sorry... 1 scroll per day... just like any other magic item. Cost has no basis.
Page 549 of Pathfinder core book. Left column, towards the bottom.
"Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day."
Whoops, my bad. In which case, my group is going to conveniently overlook that final bit. I'll agree that creating a cantrip scroll, and it being all I can make that day, is silly. However, with the fact that we're ignoring the rule of one a day, it only reconfirms the fact that we wouldn't use the spell you're proposing. That's still too much, in our opinion. A wizard that takes the scroll master archetype would get way too much use out of it. One of the other reasons I limited it to less then or equal to 500gp. Of course, I could also limit it up to 3rd level spells. That would seriously restrict its abuse.
Shoga wrote: "Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day." Yup. Which brings up the question "Is a scroll with multiple spells on it classified as a single magic item?" This, in turn, depends on your reading of the sections I quoted.
Scrolls, CRB wrote: A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form. A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated. Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell. The price of a scroll is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 25 gp. If the scroll has a material component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create. Table: Scrolls gives sample prices for scrolls created at the lowest possible caster level for each spellcasting class. Note that some spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level of such spells depends on the caster scribing the scroll. I read this as "A scroll is a... collection of spells...", which implies an affirmative answer to my earlier question. YMMV.
Hard Skin: If I was GMing, I would allow it, though it would be a 3rd level sorcerer/wizard spell: base the spell on barkskin (2nd level spell), +1 spell level because you are converting a spell from a different class to your class, at least +1 spell level for the longer duration and -1 spell level for slower progression of the effect compared to barkskin.
If the range was changed to personal, I might go for allowing it as a 2nd level spell. In any event, no matter how many limitations added, it should never be lower than 2nd level as natural armor bonus is the Druid's specialty.
Ghost Self: That is a tough one; I would only allow it if there was an expensive material component involved, and even then the spell might need more limitations. If by doubling scribe costs you mean per scroll instead of merely because you are creating two scrolls at a time that would be acceptable. If the 500 gp limit per scroll is the price of the scroll rather than the creation cost, that would limit scrolls to 3rd level (CL6) or lower with which would help to balance it.
I also agree that the spell should be a different school; I would say illusion over conjuration but only because conjuration already has enough power already.
so do druids get mage armor, shield, mirror image, blink, blur and false life in return?
sorcs and wizards already have tons of armor adds or get out of free spells. This is just an attempt to free up a neck slot for some other item.
a wizard could have mage armor, shield, and this spell for a +10 to their armor with no armor on---save everything up for ring of protection.
then have false life, mirror image, blur and blink on top of it. Maybe if this spell prevented false life and mirror image from being on at the same time? because a druid does not have the mirror image and false life option.
Orfamay Quest wrote: It's also wickedly overpowered (the old D&D Amanuensis spell did less -- it couldn't copy scrolls, only mundane writings) and was still a third-level spell. They actually turned Amanuensis into a cantrip in the Spell Compendium.
As others have said, it would be easier to just add Barksin to the Wizard list at a higher level. I don't really have an opinion on the second spell.
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Raymond Gellner wrote: Hard Skin: If I was GMing, I would allow it, though it would be a 3rd level sorcerer/wizard spell: base the spell on barkskin (2nd level spell), +1 spell level because you are converting a spell from a different class to your class, at least +1 spell level for the longer duration and -1 spell level for slower progression of the effect compared to barkskin.
If the range was changed to personal, I might go for allowing it as a 2nd level spell. In any event, no matter how many limitations added, it should never be lower than 2nd level as natural armor bonus is the Druid's specialty.
Ghost Self: That is a tough one; I would only allow it if there was an expensive material component involved, and even then the spell might need more limitations. If by doubling scribe costs you mean per scroll instead of merely because you are creating two scrolls at a time that would be acceptable. If the 500 gp limit per scroll is the price of the scroll rather than the creation cost, that would limit scrolls to 3rd level (CL6) or lower with which would help to balance it.
I also agree that the spell should be a different school; I would say illusion over conjuration but only because conjuration already has enough power already.
Thank you.
I would agree with your assessment on Hard Skin.. your point is taken. 3rd level it is. everything else as written.
Shadow Scribe ( Thanks Reynard)
the limitations I was thinking was a scroll takes Y GP to make so for 2 scrolls it takes 2 x Y GP.
500gp per scroll maximum to equal the 1000GP max per day limit.
Max of 3rd level spells.
Already changed school to Illusion(Shadow).
Reynard_the_fox wrote: Shoga wrote: "Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day." Yup. Which brings up the question "Is a scroll with multiple spells on it classified as a single magic item?" This, in turn, depends on your reading of the sections I quoted.
Scrolls, CRB wrote: A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form. A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated. Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell. The price of a scroll is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 25 gp. If the scroll has a material component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create. Table: Scrolls gives sample prices for scrolls created at the lowest possible caster level for each spellcasting class. Note that some spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level of such spells depends on the caster scribing the scroll. I read this as "A scroll is a... collection of spells...", which implies an affirmative answer to my earlier question. YMMV. I would concur with your assessment. Thanks
Will have to slide it past my GM...
Hakken wrote: so do druids get mage armor, shield, mirror image, blink, blur and false life in return?
sorcs and wizards already have tons of armor adds or get out of free spells. This is just an attempt to free up a neck slot for some other item.
a wizard could have mage armor, shield, and this spell for a +10 to their armor with no armor on---save everything up for ring of protection.
then have false life, mirror image, blur and blink on top of it. Maybe if this spell prevented false life and mirror image from being on at the same time? because a druid does not have the mirror image and false life option.
They don't have the options because someone hasn't worked out a viable spell for it yet.
Take a chance, hope it succeeds.. if not, try again.
Hakken wrote: so do druids get mage armor, shield, mirror image, blink, blur and false life in return?
sorcs and wizards already have tons of armor adds or get out of free spells. This is just an attempt to free up a neck slot for some other item.
a wizard could have mage armor, shield, and this spell for a +10 to their armor with no armor on---save everything up for ring of protection.
then have false life, mirror image, blur and blink on top of it. Maybe if this spell prevented false life and mirror image from being on at the same time? because a druid does not have the mirror image and false life option.
So a cleric/druid/ranger/paladin with a high Use Magic Device hasn't occurred to you.
Shoga wrote: Hakken wrote: so do druids get mage armor, shield, mirror image, blink, blur and false life in return?
sorcs and wizards already have tons of armor adds or get out of free spells. This is just an attempt to free up a neck slot for some other item.
a wizard could have mage armor, shield, and this spell for a +10 to their armor with no armor on---save everything up for ring of protection.
then have false life, mirror image, blur and blink on top of it. Maybe if this spell prevented false life and mirror image from being on at the same time? because a druid does not have the mirror image and false life option.
So a cleric/druid/ranger/paladin with a high Use Magic Device hasn't occurred to you.
yep---but it means you have to raise your UMD. Otherwise why not give every caster every spell? There is an amulet of natural armor for a reason. simple enough to buy. The only reason for the spell would be to free up the neck slot. If that is ok, as a cleric I want a charisma boosting spell that lasts for hours per level so I can free up my headband slot.
My magus wants false life and mage armor added to its list.
my summoner wants fireball on his spell list
etc
I don't think you are going to find many who think wizards are short on power or spell choices. A wizards with false life, stone skin, cushioning bands, mirror image, blink, mage armor, shield etc on is already hard to touch.
Shoga wrote:
Sorcerer/Wizard 1st
+1 Natural Armor +1/5 levels
Druid/Ranger 2nd
+2 Natural Armor +1/3 Levels
Didn't miss it, just doesn't matter. You've increased the duration 6 fold. You've taken a spell revolving around another class's area of expertise, made it better, and lowered its level. Like I said, broken.
Look, you asked for comments, I commented. You don't have to like it, but debating it doesn't make it less broken. But I will ask you a question, what does this spell bring to the game? Why does a wizard need the ability to give people natural armor?
ShadowcatX wrote: Shoga wrote:
Sorcerer/Wizard 1st
+1 Natural Armor +1/5 levels
Druid/Ranger 2nd
+2 Natural Armor +1/3 Levels
Didn't miss it, just doesn't matter. You've increased the duration 6 fold. You've taken a spell revolving around another class's area of expertise, made it better, and lowered its level. Like I said, broken.
Look, you asked for comments, I commented. You don't have to like it, but debating it doesn't make it less broken. But I will ask you a question, what does this spell bring to the game? Why does a wizard need the ability to give people natural armor? Point taken.... Thanks.
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