Looking for advice on how to handle this, my DM allowed us to create new races as per the race guide, we were allowed to create our own back story for the races as well, so a buddy and I decided to be the same race, and have our back story for the race be one of myth and legend, we live on the outskirts of civilization and in constant hiding when a kingdom comes near we don't start wars and we don't make ourselves known we are nothing but old wives tales at best. our race can pretty much not even pass for any other race so when we join the party we are disguised horribly as humans with "conditions" just for fun, the DM said ok and everyone was fine with having something in the group that they didn't know what it was. all except one person she sat down and had to roll every knowledge, perception, all the time saying our race name that we were only supposed to give the DM because it was agreed our race was unknown but she just said "oh I know they exist" and recanted our back story and then worked in that she had been spying on us forever.
I consider this annoying because we did this for fun and this one person HAS to know EVERYTHING and just spout it out to any npc we meet, thoughts?
You and your friend could reveal to the party that everything you've said so far was just the "cover story" your people came up with to fool gullible people, I suppose...
...but it's probably better to ask her why she feels like raining on your parade.
her words "Look I know the race exists that's it, so make your disguise check I have a +18 sense motive and a +18 perception and I rolled a nat 20 on each"
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Tell her upfront, but in a polite way.
"Our concept was to be kind of mysterious, but it's really hard to do that right now. Is there a way we can include you in that, so that we can have the core concept that we wanted to play with?"
Tell her upfront, but in a polite way.
"Our concept was to be kind of mysterious, but it's really hard to do that right now. Is there a way we can include you in that, so that we can have the core concept that we wanted to play with?"
thank you just texted that, her reply besides calling us stupid was "Look I think its great for story here you thought you wouldn't have anyone knowing who you are so now you have everyone knowing who you are your race is fooling itself and in oblivion about the world knowing you doesn't that make it better!"
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Then she is a jerk. And, obviously, it is very important for her to "WIN" the game in some way. Because god forbid her character isn't perfect.
I suggest talking to the GM and explaining that her behavior bothers you.
Better yet, tell her that her behavior bothers you. Screw inclusion. Tell her that you're not having fun. Because of her.
thank you just texted that, her reply besides calling us stupid was "Look I think its great for story here you thought you wouldn't have anyone knowing who you are so now you have everyone knowing who you are your race is fooling itself and in oblivion about the world knowing you doesn't that make it better!"Tell her upfront, but in a polite way.
"Our concept was to be kind of mysterious, but it's really hard to do that right now. Is there a way we can include you in that, so that we can have the core concept that we wanted to play with?"
First, tell her to stop speaking in run-on sentences because most of us can't even tell what she's trying to say.
Second, she sounds like a douche. Or maybe she just wants to use her skills -- though I'm curious whether this is a level 1 campaign, or you're starting at higher level? Or maybe she doesn't like special snowflake characters -- maybe she had a traumatic experience in the past with someone hogging the spotlight with a special snowflake PC.
Hard to say without being there.
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It is my opinion, formed over a quarter century of gaming, that secrets between the players are overrated. (Secrets between player-characters are okay). The GM counts as a player for this statement.
Legitimately role-playing is hard enough as it is. You should know what you're up against and make a good faith effort not to metagame.
Sometimes grand reveals by the GM are cool, but the harder you try to force it, the worse the result. Sometimes it's best for the players to just all agree on what story they're trying to tell and stop trying to shock each other.
The whole situation described by the OP would have gone much more smoothly if the other player was told what was going on and asked to simply role-play ignorance. I understand that keeping the player in the dark was an attempt to get them to feel the character's ignorance, but that doesn't actually work the way people assume it does. It just doesn't. Role-playing is really hard, and GMs and fellow players are rarely able to communicate efficiently enough to make this kind of shock-reveal a pleasant experience that allows the victim to characterize the way they want.
In other words, it is always better to have a co-conspirator in your fellow player than a victim. Leave surprises in-character whenever possible, and let your players know what's expected of them early and often.
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Had a long talk, I think things have been worked out. Thank you all, thread closed.
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How did it go down?
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Now I expect you to tell me which NPCs are plotting against my PC when I sit at your table EL. I can roleplay my characters shock when they betray the party better when I know in advance. ;)
I would, actually. Not if I didn't have to, but I often have to because I have no poker face.
I just make my players feel awful if they ruin their own game with metagaming. It works great.
My players spend more time in discussion about what the coolest vision of the situation is, and less time trying to throw a wrench in my campaign. And I would expect the same from you at my table.
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Somewhere, there's another thread, where a player complains that
"I made a PC with maxed Knowledge skills and divination abilities, and two other awkward players kept trying to insist that they were this mysterious race that no-one, anywhere, had ever heard about.
Why can't people let other players use their skills for what they were designed to do?"
Somewhere, there's another thread, where a player complains that
"I made a PC with maxed Knowledge skills and divination abilities, and two other awkward players kept trying to insist that they were this mysterious race that no-one, anywhere, had ever heard about.
Why can't people let other players use their skills for what they were designed to do?"
Quick, to the Giant in the Playground forums!
I honestly cant say how I feel about this. Its two players who have chosen a theme which is mutually exclusive to the other.
Its just as bad to say 'We made races that nobody should know exist and then someone made a character with such impressive focus on knowledge skills that she knows all about us'
as it would be to say 'I made a character who spent every possible point on knowing every possible thing, and then for someone else at the table to just offhand try and say 'oh yeah, well we're gonna be a race you now nothing about!'
If I had to gm this scenario I'd just let the dice fall where they may. Look. Its true. 95% of the population knows NOTHING about your race. You just happened to join a party with someone who knows EVERYTHING.
On the flip side it would be no big deal to have the gm say that knowledge of your race is like a dc55 so theres no way a 1st level party member could have any hope of knowing the first thing about you no matter how they rolled...
I think the important part is to embrace the irony. Maybe the whole REASON the know it all is in your party is BECAUSE they know about you... Everyone else would be like 'I wouldnt hang out with those two... they've got some sort of 'condition'... Might be catching... But this knowitall player is like wow look at these wonderful things. I must join them. I must learn more! And the best learning is first hand, as I would clearly know because I KNOW IT ALL! Have awesome fun by roleplaying out their rabid curiosity and coming up with awesome answers to all the questions about your race that they don't know. Or more specifically about the things no knowledge check can accomodate... Details about your specific characters. Its one thing to say I know a lot about your 'race' but another entirely to say 'I know we just met but I know how many waffles you can eat before you pass out'....
Which brings up the question that interests me.. What particular thing about your race was the 'mysterious thing' you wanted to keep hidden from the knowitall player... If the answer is 'nothing really, it just sort of ruins our 'mystique' well, I wouldnt let that get to you too much. If there was some racial 'surprise' you wanted to spring on a player for thematic purposes I can see how that would be fun and would have hoped my gm made such a thing an unachievable dc.
What you have to consider is 'comparatively speaking, exactly how 'unknown' are you. Because information on runelords is in the 30-55 range. Is the result of the fact that your race 'hides on the fringes of civilization really enough to make you more mysterious and less well known than the details of how the runelords hid from armageddon?
As a gm, expecting 40's might be fair, but expecting 55s might be pushing it