I was thinking about make a witch and was going through the guides looking at the spells they suggest. Hypnotism was rated very low so I almost disregarded it. However, once I read it, I thought it was the greatest spell ever?
Am I missing something?
PRD wrote:
Quote: School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area several living creatures, no two of which may be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration 2d4 rounds (D)
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
Your gestures and droning incantation fascinate nearby creatures, causing them to stop and stare blankly at you. In addition, you can use their rapt attention to make your suggestions and requests seem more plausible. Roll 2d4 to see how many total HD of creatures you affect. Creatures with fewer HD are affected before creatures with more HD. Only creatures that can see or hear you are affected, but they do not need to understand you to be fascinated.
If you use this spell in combat, each target gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw. If the spell affects only a single creature not in combat at the time, the saving throw has a penalty of –2.
While the subject is fascinated by this spell, it reacts as though it were two steps more friendly in attitude. This allows you to make a single request of the affected creature (provided you can communicate with it). The request must be brief and reasonable. Even after the spell ends, the creature retains its new attitude toward you, but only with respect to that particular request.
A creature that fails its saving throw does not remember that you enspelled it.
Now, my witch will have a 16 DC for hypnotism. Further, she would cast onto one target outside of combat so the DC would effectively be 18. Further, she would use Evil Eye before casting to make the DC effectively 20.
The suggestion she would make after fascinating the target is "please adventure with me serving as the party cleric/fighter/whatever on our adventure to kill the dragon"
So, if I am reading hypnotism correctly, even after the spell ends, as long as I target an indifferent or better creature who language I can speak, they will behave with a helpful attitude with regard to my suggestion.
I can have 5 hypnotism prepared. I can cast one the same person more than once. I can affect upto 2d4 hit dice with each casting.
What am I missing? This seems like the greatest spell ever for a first level caster. It is an army builder.
Hypnotism has a number of issues. They are:
1.) Only useful out of combat
2.) Severely limited in scope. Even if you land it, you can only make a single, brief, reasonable request of the person. So, basically, you're at your GM's whim as to what you can do with it.
If "Drop all your stuff and come work for me for no money!" strikes your DM as brief and reasonable, this might be an army builder for you.
-Cross
Have fun with the 2d4 HD limit. Those goblins will make great back-up party members. *sarcasm*
I am a fan... its not bad for either in or out of combat but it really shines as an out of combat spell. Its great for shaking out information from key low level NPCs, getting better prices from local merchants etc
I Hate Nickelback wrote: Have fun with the 2d4 HD limit. Those goblins will make great back-up party members. *sarcasm* The 2d4 HD limit is not bad is it. It is a first level spell. The effects of the spell last potentially for very long periods of time. If you are a first level caster you can control upto a 8HD creature.
What is not to like.
I guess if you are a 12th level you are not going to want the help a 8HD creature. However, I am talking first level here.
It's mostly bad due to HD limit. It would be good in starting levels 1-2.
Crosswind wrote: Hypnotism has a number of issues. They are:
1.) Only useful out of combat
2.) Severely limited in scope. Even if you land it, you can only make a single, brief, reasonable request of the person. So, basically, you're at your GM's whim as to what you can do with it.
If "Drop all your stuff and come work for me for no money!" strikes your DM as brief and reasonable, this might be an army builder for you.
-Cross
Out of combat is when you recruit is it not. You don't want to recruit after combat has started. I am thinking this spell is like gaining leadership at first level.
Where is the brief and reasonable request limitation in the spell. I don't see it. I quoted all of the language. You get to make a suggestion. "Come fight the dragon with my party." What is wrong with that.
Malag wrote: It's mostly bad due to HD limit. It would be good in starting levels 1-2. What is wrong with using it at fifth level. I am fifth level and can get upto an 8th level fighter/cleric/whatever to adventure with me.
I just don't get it. This spell is not only great to me, but it ranks among the best of all low level spells. I think I put this thing above color spray.
Driver 325 yards wrote: Crosswind wrote: Hypnotism has a number of issues. They are:
1.) Only useful out of combat
2.) Severely limited in scope. Even if you land it, you can only make a single, brief, reasonable request of the person. So, basically, you're at your GM's whim as to what you can do with it.
If "Drop all your stuff and come work for me for no money!" strikes your DM as brief and reasonable, this might be an army builder for you.
-Cross
Out of combat is when you recruit is it not. You don't want to recruit after combat has started. I am thinking this spell is like gaining leadership at first level.
Where is the brief and reasonable request limitation in the spell. I don't see it. I quoted all of the language. You get to make a suggestion. "Come fight the dragon with my party." What is wrong with that. Never mind, I see the brief and reasonable. That said, it still seem pretty great to me.
It works best when you have some other wheel-greaser. You use the hypnotism to soften them to the idea, then, say, offer them money to do something that suddenly doesn't seem quite so unreasonable....
If your GM is willing to play ball with the outcome of the infinite duration friendly request then this is one of the best spells in the game.
If your GM is adversarial or disagrees with your interpretation of the text, skip it. Heck, if your GM is less than 100% accommodating with that line of the spell, skip it. Otherwise, the value of the spell lies almost entirely in the value of the infinite request.
I have one party where another PC actually joined the group solely as a result of a successful hypnotism. He was indifferent, made helpful with the spell. I suggested that he should follow me and protect me from all harm. From that moment on, that is what he does.
Evil Lincoln wrote: If your GM is willing to play ball with the outcome of the infinite duration friendly request then this is one of the best spells in the game. I don't think you guys are reading this spell correctly.
Let's say you successfully use it as the original post suggested.
"Please, adventure with me serving as the party fighter on our adventure to kill the dragon."
Ok, now, in regard to that specific request, you treat an indifferent target as helpful. The rules for helpful:
"If a creature’s attitude toward you is at least indifferent, you can make requests of the creature. This is an additional Diplomacy check, using the creature’s current attitude to determine the base DC, with one of the following modifiers. Once a creature’s attitude has shifted to helpful, the creature gives in to most requests without a check, unless the request is against its nature or puts it in serious peril.Some requests automatically fail if the request goes against the creature’s values or its nature, subject to GM discretion."
So, right off the bat, if adventuring with you is against the target's values or nature, hypnotism did nothing. Otherwise, adventuring is sure to put them in serious peril, so you must roll. The base DC is admittedly only 0+Cha, but you would be applying several modifiers. Specifically, +5 for giving lengthy or complicated aid, and +10 for giving dangerous aid. I think many would also add +15 for giving aid that might result in punishment (I don't know many forgiving dragons that would let you walk away from a failed slaying attempt). So the DC is actually either 15+Cha or 30+Cha.
Oh, and these people are not mind controlled, they're helpful. You can expect to pay them an equal share of the loot and generally treat them like equals, or their attitude will certainly drop further. You also have to realize that they are only Helpful in regard to that specific request, so they'll go adventuring, but they won't actually like you or help you much while adventuring.
The spell is not useless, but it's not very strong.
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