Tyranosaurus as a BeatRider Mount

[Isadork]

I am having difficulties with this, I seem to be viewing contradictory rules. A player in my campaign is attempting to use a tyrano as a mount. Now at LV7 he can make this a large Tyrano, which allows his medium creature to ride. But the issue I am having is not with the size, it is with these 2 glorious lines of text about BeastRider mounts.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---ca valier-archetypes/beast-rider

"At 4th level, a Medium beast rider can also choose an allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium, aurochs, bison, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon, hippopotamus, lion, mastodon, megaloceros, giant snapping turtle, tiger, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus as his mount. Additional mounts might be available with GM approval."

vs

"beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments)."

The first paragraph states he can choose a Tyrano, but the second paragraph, only about 2 paragraphs below in the PFSRD, states the mount has to have 4 legs, which a Tyrano last I heard has 2 arms and 2 legs.

Contradictory info. Anyone have an opinion or clarification?

[Lincoln Hills]

Allosaurs are another exception (although last I checked, paleontologists thought that the early carnosaurs walked on four legs and ran on two, kangaroo-style). In this case I think the specific permission is meant to override the general restriction.

[Storm Sorcerer Arcturus]

Isadork wrote:

I am having difficulties with this, I seem to be viewing contradictory rules. A player in my campaign is attempting to use a tyrano as a mount. Now at LV7 he can make this a large Tyrano, which allows his medium creature to ride. But the issue I am having is not with the size, it is with these 2 glorious lines of text about BeastRider mounts.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---ca valier-archetypes/beast-rider

"At 4th level, a Medium beast rider can also choose an allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium, aurochs, bison, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon, hippopotamus, lion, mastodon, megaloceros, giant snapping turtle, tiger, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus as his mount. Additional mounts might be available with GM approval."

vs

"beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments)."

The first paragraph states he can choose a Tyrano, but the second paragraph, only about 2 paragraphs below in the PFSRD, states the mount has to have 4 legs, which a Tyrano last I heard has 2 arms and 2 legs.

Contradictory info. Anyone have an opinion or clarification?

Well, I assume you're the constant GM of the world, so I recommended just using your ability to override the rules. The rules are mostly guidelines to many GMs, including myself. Bending them a little can make the game way more fun on occasion!

[ArmouredMonk13]

I believe that, if you are doing this for something "official" that the tyrannosaurus could be your mount because it says it can. I think that the 2 contradicting specifics would have the 4 legs be slightly more general as it applies to multiple different things, and the tyrannosaurus only applies to it.

[KainPen]

if you read the 2nd paragraph it is telling you the if creature that has less then 4 legs, fly, or swim speed must be able to support the characters weight if not he cannot have that mount and must use a four legged one.

A large 2 legged on would support double it str. weight limit. which is 22 for T-rex. lift load light is 173 lbs. x2 because it large 346 lbs, for heavy load 1040lbs. so the rider and all his gear must weigh less then 1040lbs. Note the animal will be encumberd based on total weight it is carrying.

this makes sense as 4 legged creautre start at x2 the lift load limits for medium creatures x4 for large ones meaning the weight they can support are well over what the creature would normally weight.

[Karal mithrilaxe]

a specifically stated allowance always takes precedence over a general prohibition. IE monks must always be lawful vs a martial artist can be of any alignment. You can have a axe beak also if you have the correct chronicle.

So specifically allowing allosaurs and t-rexs by name would mean they are allowed by RAW even if their frame type normally would not be. You as a GM in s home game of course can make your own rules-and if the players have a problem with you deviating from RAW they can choose not to play.

[Isadork]

Perfect thank you for the information gentlemen appreciate it greatly.

Sounds like a , ya it's allowed, by strict PF rules

[Michael Sayre]

It seems like this is already answered, but what you've actually got is two different blocks of rules.

"Medium beast riders can choose a camel or horse mount at 1st level. At 4th level, a Medium beast rider can also choose an allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium, aurochs, bison, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon, hippopotamus, lion, mastodon, megaloceros, snapping turtle (giant), tiger, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus as his mount. Additional mounts might be available with GM approval.

In addition, a 7th-level or higher Medium beast rider can select any creature whose natural size is Large or Huge, provided that creature is normally available as a Medium-sized animal companion at 7th level (like a bear). To generate statistics for such a mount, apply the following modifications: Size Large; Ability Scores Str +2, Dex –2, Con +2. Increase the damage of each of the mount's natural attacks by one die size. A beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments)."

You actually have two rules there. The first paragraph gives you the default list; then, the second paragraph details other possible options, and the criteria those options need to meet. The restrictions listed only apply to the open-ended alternatives of the second paragraph.

[Sah]

KainPen, I am having a hard time reading it the way you have stated in your post, could you explain it to me? I did not get that idea at all from reading that section, or is it different in the quote than in the book (Away from book right now)

Also, not really on topic but I am curious. Isadork, why did you shorten Tyrannosaurus to Tyrano, instead of T-rex? Not trying to start an argument or anything, I just am curious about language and dialects, and my first thought would be to use T-rex.

[KainPen]

Carrying Capacity is on pg.169 of the crb, that is how you determine what weight the creature can bear

pg.170
"Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table 7–4
are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature
can carry more weight depending on its size category, as
follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16.
A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its
size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive
×1/4, Fine ×1/8.

my multiple was wrong on 4 legged creatures it is only 1.5 x for medium and for large x3 not 2 and 4
"Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds
can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature’s
Strength score from Table 7–4 by the appropriate modifier,
as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small
×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12,
Colossal ×24."

the table for weight loads are on. 171.

Trex str is listed in bestiary as animal companion medium as 14 but at level 7 it becomes large and it's str jumps by +8 14+8 =22

which weight limits on p.171 is
light 173 medium 346, heavy of 520 you multiply these numbers by 2 according to via page 170 bigger smaller creatures and you have a weight limit max of 1040. So that is the most this 2 legged creature can bear. if for some reason the a medium creature/ beast rider weighed more then that, it is not likely. he would have to pick a 4 legged mount. as per the rule Isadork stated and is asking about.

[Lincoln Hills]

Sah wrote:

Isadork, why did you shorten Tyrannosaurus to Tyrano, instead of T-rex? Not trying to start an argument or anything, I just am curious about language and dialects, and my first thought would be to use T-rex.

And I always say Tyrannosaurus rex, because I have a pathological fear that if everybody says T-Rex, they'll forget how to spell 'tyrannosaurus'. Although it seems to have worked out well for Xmas, which is more popular now than it was when it was hard to spell. ;)

[KainPen]

Pathfinder Modern or Future one can dream lol.

[Sah]

KainPen wrote:

*snip stuff about carrying capacity*

No see, I was asking how you read the statement as they are allowed to pick a two legged creature or a flying creature as long as they can carry them, I did not get that from the way it is worded at all. I got them as 3 separate things that are not viable choices.

As in you cannot choose animals based on the following rules
A. You cannot choose flying animals
B. You cannot choose animals with fewer than 4 legs
C. You cannot choose animals that cannot support your weight.

The T-rex is explicitly listed as one of the choices so this section (which is for picking animals not on the explicit list who are normally only available as AC's that are medium and even then only if they are normally listed in the bestiary as large or huge) is irrelevant to his strength, flight capabilities and number of limbs.

And Lincoln, my first thought would be to use Tyrannosaurus Rex as well, but I am talking about if I was intending to shorten it for the sake of brevity.