My group is about to head to Magnimar in Skinsaw Murders (AE). The players don't have too much experience and after the cleric nearly drowned under Foxglove Manor last time, they are starting to realize how dangerous going on adventure can be. They are all intelligent folk and I want to push them into getting better. And since all 6 of them will be there when we play next time, I want to increase the difficuly level. But frankly, I'm not sure how to do this effectively.
Here's the party compositon:
2. Human cleric 7. Domains Strength and Healing (Restoration). Buffer/Healer with some melee abilities (Str 16, power attack). Uses weapon and shield.
3. Tiefling (Kyton-Spawn) rogue 5/Red Mantis Assassin 2 (I dropped the alignment requirements for story reasons). Two weapon fighting with 2 sawtooth sabres. The flanker and primary rogue of the party.
4. Half-Elf Rogue 3/Evoker (admixture) 3/Arcane Trickster 1. Arcane support, secondary rogue and flanker in light armor (with arcane armor training).
5. Dwarf Invulnerable Rager 7. Wields an Earthbreaker. Our newest player, so I built his character. Unfortunately, I'm an optimizer, so he has Steel Soul, Beast Totem and Superstition. Main frontliner and damage dealer of the group.
6. Used to be a human sorcerer with the elemental air bloodline. Player was on hiatus for the last 2 month and I don't know yet if she wants to continue her sorc or switch to something else.
Ok, I know there are some quick ways to make encounters more challengling. Maxing HP of the enemies and andding the advanced template are nice quick ways but I'm looking for more variety than this. For the combats in Magnimar I thought about those changes and would like to hear some opinion on them.
1. Foxglove Manor: I think either maxing HP or adding one more Stalker should be enough. This fight should show them that something is amiss, not kill them.
2. Sawmill: Don't have my book with me but I think the cultist are rogue 1 /cleric 2, right? I'm not sure what to do here. Adding more cultists won't work because the place is already cramped with 6 PCs. I thought about adding a level to each one but a second rogue level won't do much and another cleric level would grant them 2nd level spells which might be a bit much. So far, I'm leaning towards just giving them some extra HP. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
3. Scarecrow: This fight can go horribly wrong if it crits. I think leaving it as is should work well enough, maybe add some HP on the fly if they hit it too hard too soon.
4. Stalkers: Being X's guards, I think adding the advanced template is merited.
5. Xanesha: She's my real problem. I've seen her 3.5 statblock and man was she deadly. She still is but I think the action economy against 6 PCs would be too much of a disadvantage. She prefers to fight alone but I don't think she would mind summoning support with a scroll of Summon Monster V. At first I was thinking about a Babau but 3 +12 attacks with +2d6 sneak attack are probably a bit too much. So now I'm considering a Salamander. On its own, it would hardly be a chellange but as flanking buddy and grappler against the barbarian so he can't use his big weapon, I think a Salamander should work nicely. The group could also ignore and outlast him if they can survive long enough.
So yeah, any thoughts?
I varied the Sawmill people. While they almost all have a level of Rogue, some also have Sorcerer levels, some are clerics, there's even a bard. Several different races, too. Nor are they all the same level - some are 5th level, a couple are still 3rd, and many are 4th level. I also gave each one a name.
Joey Virtue posted a nice write-up of all the changes he made for his six player game here: here
It is a nice write-up. Unfortunately it's written for the 3.5 version of RotRL. I'm not unleashing the old Xanesha on an inexperienced group.
Thanks anyway :)
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I have 6 players as well, all currently at level 6, about to head to the Foxglove Townhouse. Mine are even more powerful than normal, thanks to a higher point buy, max hit points at every level, and--since we're playing in Eberron and I have a story to go with it--they all have Dragonmarks (Aberrant Dragonmarks of Sin, to be precise...). I have a bard/paladin, a ranger/paladin, a ranger, a druid, a rogue, and a sorcerer/wizard.
Foxglove Manor's creature encounters were mostly easy for them, though I did have advanced ghouls in the mix. I nearly killed one of the party paladins thanks to two critical hits in one round. The biggest trouble they had was with the haunts, and part-way through, they were all set to just set the place on fire and get the hell out. :)
I'm leaving the Townhouse as is, and the number of cultists at the sawmill as is. But I'm changing Ironbriar to an Inquistior with a bodyguard. The bodyguard is there specifically to give Ironbriar someone to play off of with teamwork feats.
I'll leave the scarecrow and stalkers at Xanesha's tower as is, but I'm beefing Xanesha up a bit (mostly with regards to her gear), and there will be an antipaladin in the mix as well.
It should be a good variance of some easier fights, with more difficult ones. I'm not out to kill PCs, but I do plan to make them earn all of the nice prizes they have waiting for them (which, is also beefed up, since I have some new types of magic items I'm introducing).
The most important thing I've found with large groups, is to play the villains smart--make use of flanking, take advantage of teamwork feats, and use some of those disposable items. If they hear a fight, let them beef themselves up. Villains are the heroes of their own story, after all.
Hm... Ironbirar as Inquisitor sounds fun. Would give him a bit more melee abilies without limiting his spellcasting too much. I'll concider that. Thanks :)
Last player decided to play an Bomber Alchemist. With Frost Bomb, so the Salamander would probably go down too fast. I'm back to Xanesha summoning a Babau. I think it fits pretty well. It's sturdy and its attacks are just right - not enough to kill a PC too fast, but just strong enough so it can't be ignored. Also forces tactical positioning lest someone is flanked and ripped to shreds in two rounds. And if it does prove to be too much, I'll just have it waste a few rounds with dispel magic and maybe darkness. Curious, how that work's out.
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Yeah but its easy to convert and the author spent a quite a lot of time and did a pretty good job
There is also a great guide to making challenging encounters and it discusses how to deal with 6 players here on the boards
Yeah but its easy to convert and the author spent a quite a lot of time and did a pretty good job
There is also a great guide to making challenging encounters and it discusses how to deal with 6 players here on the boards
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the work and that that you're sharing it.
I might steal a few general ideas, but the conversion from 3.5 to Pathfinder is more work than Pathfinder for 4 to Pathfinder for 6. For me with my very limited 3.5 knowledge, anyway.
For those of you who have run 5-6 party RotR campaigns:
What have you done to increase treasure to keep the players at expected wealth by level? My 6 person party is only just to the Catacombs of Wrath. So far, the treasure rewards are keeping pace with the XP just about right for a 4 person party (assuming they get all bonus rewards and hidden treasures). I've tweaked the rewards up by 50% so far, but am struggling a little bit as the encounter levels go up.
IRT wealth, the party should have appropriate wealth by level for four. If they spread it out amongst six, well, being six is rich enough :) So, for a party of six lvl 5 PCs, they should be sharing a pool of 42,000gold. (10.5k/PC)
For the Sawmill Mooks, I love the idea above of adding odd levels to make them all unique. Of course you could simply add a level or two of Warrior to give them a bit more heft without making them too dangerous :) or, just go plus two levels of Rogue! extra HP, Evasion, more Sneak Attack damage :)
I'm running a 10-12 person party that's just about to fight Xanesha and I've kept them *broke*. They've made around 7,000 gold total at level 6. Initially I was just awarding what the module said to award, which does not scale with the average character wealth. Once I realized they were behind I have done a little bit to buff it (5,000 gold each from the grateful people of Sandpoint), since they already have the advantage in action economy, the last thing I need is them buying a ton of wondrous items.
The moral of that story: The issue isn't what they expect to receive, but what you choose to give them. If you want to buff the treasure, just include a chest after the 'boss' fights full of platinum and items.