Are you flat footed when rolling iniative?


Rules Questions


Title says it, and can you take actions when rolling imitative such as an immediate action to reroll. Specifically this is asking for a dual-cursed time oracle's fortune/misfortune abilities. You would think that all those luck/time themed reroll abilities would play some part in initiative order.

If you are flat footed, is there a way to change that specifically?


In terms of just standard initiative rolling, it is assumed that the characters are ready for combat. For Surprise Rounds, a character that did not react in the Surprise Round is considered flat-footed until their turn comes. However, Flat-Footed only denies your Dexterity modifier to AC, not to things like Initiative, Acrobatics, etc. So their Dexterity modifier still applies.

As far as the whole "re-roll immediate action" ordeal is concerned, the character is denied this ability when it is just a standard initiative roll-off before combat actually begins. If you were with a party and got the jump on somebody, you could ready a standard action to use your ability as soon as combat starts, and when initiative is rolled, the spell would go off and you would get your benefit.

But in all honesty, these rerolls would only help you if you rolled horribly; if you rolled decent or even a Nat 20, it's a waste of abilities/spells, and is something you should use for a failed Save or Suck spell, or rolling a 1 on a hit, etc. It is an Immediate Action, so it can be used outside your turn.


1. If you are flat footed, you may not take immediate actions.
2. You are flat footed before your initiative count comes up, regardless of whether or not there was a surprise round.

Therefore, you can not use an immediate action to reroll an initiative check.

Silver Crusade

I can't think of any re-roll which requires an action at all, even immediate/free/swift.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
I can't think of any re-roll which requires an action at all, even immediate/free/swift.

Well, a dual-cursed time oracle has plenty of rerolls.

Dual-Cursed:
Dual-Cursed wrote:

Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.

Fortune (Ex): At 5th level, as an immediate action, you can reroll any one d20 roll that you have just made before the results of the roll are revealed. You must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. You can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every six oracle levels beyond 5th.

Time Oracle:
Time wrote:

Knowledge of the Ages (Su): You can search through time to recall some bit of forgotten lore or information. You can retry any Knowledge skill check you have made within the past minute, gaining an insight bonus on the check equal to your Charisma modifier. You can use this ability a number times per day equal to your Charisma modifier.

Rewind Time (Su): Once per day as an immediate action, you can reroll any one d20 roll that you have just made before the results of the roll are revealed. You must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. At 11th level, and every four levels thereafter, you can use this ability an additional time per day. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.

Temporal Celerity (Su): Whenever you roll for initiative, you can roll twice and take either result. At 7th level, you can always act in the surprise round, but if you fail to notice the ambush, you act last, regardless of your initiative result (you act in the normal order in following rounds). At 11th level, you can roll for initiative three times and take any one of the results.

Asking to figure out which ones can be used when. I have no idea what round your on while rolling for combat. Is it the first round? Are you flat footed? Can you rectify it(especially with things like defensive strategist)?


The only one you can use during initiative is the Temporal Celerity. The rest do not apply. Initiative is "outside" of the game and thus any in-game affects do not apply, and only those specific to initiative, like TC, would apply.

Liberty's Edge

You can't use immediate actions while you are Flat-Footed and you are Flat-Footed until you have acted in the initiative order. That means most of your rerolls and spells like feather fall can't be used until your init.

Uncanny Dodge might fix the problem.

Eidt: However you could theoretically use the immediate action before init is rolled, because that would still be outside of the combat. You could then target the init dice.

Liberty's Edge

PRD wrote:
1. When combat begins, all combatants roll initiative.

This is the first part of the combat chapter. Which states that combat has already begun before init is rolled. Meaning that my previous note was wrong.

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