Magus / Ninja / Arcane Trickster: Getting Sneak Attacks

[RtrnofdMax]

Here is my character at level 3:

Male Elf (Gray) Magus 1(Spire Defender, Spell Dancer)/Ninja 2
N medium humanoid
Init +4 Senses Low‐Light Vision Listen +8 Spot +8
DEFENSE
AC 21, touch 16, flat‐footed 16
hp 23
Fort 4 ,Ref 8 ,Will 3
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft
Melee Masterwork Scimitar +6 (1d6+4/18‐20/x2) or Touch +5 (Varies/x2)
Space 5 Reach 5
STATISTICS
STR 8 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 14
Base Atk 1 Grp00
Feats Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance, Dodge, Combat Expertise
Traits Magical Knack, Threatening Defender
Skills Acrobatics +10, Bluff +6, Climb +3, Disable Device +10, Escape Artist +10, Knowledge (arcana) +8,
Knowledge (local) +6, Linguistics +6, Perception +8, Stealth +10
Languages Common, Elven, Draconic, Celestial, Azlanti
Gear Masterwork Scimitar, Mithral Kikko Armor

At 4th level I will be picking up a point in CHA to make 15 so that I can cast Dream from the Dreamspeaker alternate racial ability, and the remaining skill points necessary for early entry into Arcane Trickster at 5.

I am looking at ways to get sneak attack consistently as I level. I already have one way with the Vanish trick, but my uses will be limited. I expect to be at 16 Cha eventually but I may not have room for the extra ki feat, so that leaves me at somewhere between 3 and 6 uses of that ability a day. I need other options.

I have been considering three paths:

• Improved Feint: I have the Cha and skill points to get pretty good at bluff checks to feint. I won't have the BAB for Greater Feint until 12th level so I am not even considering it. This seems a safe choice, though.
  
• TW Fighting, TW Feint: I have the Dex and Int for this, but it's going to take two feats before I can do it. It also takes the same amount of actions as Improved Feint, as I will basically have a 5 ft step and a single attack, however at a -2 to attack. On the other hand, when you offhand attack is against flat-footed touch, you don't need much of an attack bonus.
  
• Blind-Fight, Moonlight Stalker, Moonlight Stalker Feint, Shadow Strike - Holy feats! Shadow Strike is one I may want to take anyways, but definitely if I start throwing smoke sticks around for the easy concealment. Moonlight Stalker is also good for the attacks from invisibility with Vanishing Trick.
  

I am leaning towards the second path since I will be low on spells for awhile. Given that, I will probably prep more Chill Touch than Shocking Grasp. Since Chill Touch gives numerous touches, and touch attacks count as "armed" unarmed attacks, I could basically get the equivalent of Spell Combat every round, without the need to cast every round, and with a sneak attack on each when in a flank.

This would also leave me two feats left over for Extra Ki and something else.

Any suggestions?

[AdamF]

Hi,

How did you get on with this? I’m currently working on something similar, so I’d love to hear if you liked it.

My “solution” for consistent sneak attack is to have lots of different methods available so that if one isn’t viable another will be. I’m doing things a bit differently so this might not work for you, but here it is anyway.

Obviously flanking is simplest. Spell dancer and Ninja trick vanish should make getting into flanking position not too tricky. This and just straight attacking from vanish are my early methods.

If you can take 6 Magus levels you can choose Magus arcana “Ki Arcana (If you use your elf favoured class you can get another arcana here as well if you want). Ki Arcana combines your Ninja Ki pool and your Magus Arcane pool giving you many more uses of vanish. There is also a Magus 6 arcana (prescient attack) that allows you to spend 1 arcane pool point after hitting to deny opponents their dex bonus for future attacks. Thus providing auto-sneak attack on any target after hitting them with a weapon once.

If BAB 6 is reasonably attainable for you (I managed it at level 9) then you might consider shatter defences. You’ll need weapon focus and dazzling display and some skill points beforehand (I’ve used the Magus 5th level bonus feat to help this be less painful). If you do this you can open a fight with dazzling display to make various targets within 30 feet shaken then any shaken target you hit has their defences shattered (i.e. loses their dex) for your next attacks. Keep them shaken and it’s auto-sneak attack here as well.

[Sangalor]

Magus isn't the best class for arcane trickster IMO, but that is another topic entirely :-)

Having lots of different options is certainly the safest way.

What I have not seen mentioned:

• Summoning flanking buddies: Summon minor monsters, summon monster II (for several monsters) etc. - the more you get the better. You can summon them while you are invisible before attacking, maybe using rods of silent metamagic or the like to remain undetected. Particularly useful with...
  
• combat expertise + gang-up feat: When 2 of your allies (includes summoned monsters) threaten your target, your sneak attack kicks in. When you have enlarged/large allies (either party or summoned critters) who threaten large areas, maybe overlapping, they would threaten many foes at once - and with gang-up you sneak them all the way
  
• stealth/sneaking up and surprising them
  
• +1 to dazzling display / shatter defenses is quite nasty
  
• non-lethal damage + enforcer + intimidation (with shatter defenses): you get retries all the way to make your foes flat-footed. If one of your allies (or a cohort) had shatter defenses, it is pretty harsh on them.
  
• eldritch heritage fey bloodline and getting the 9th level power: takes you till level 11 and costs a few feats, but it scales with your character level and gives you greater invisibility with a separate pool. Alternative: Just get greater invisibility as the spell (or from a wand / scroll) as early as possible).
  

There are weapons (allying?) who give bonuses for flanking and thus easily negate penalties, e.g. from feinting.

[Korlos]

Canny tumble + circling mongoose.

Glitterdust and color spray.

Of course I forgot I got to this thread through google and necromancy' it. Reader, if you happen to be in a triple gestalt solo game, look here for ideas.

[Kwannon]

Thanks for this thread. Really good points being raised here.