| Sean H |
I was working on prepping for a session I will be running this weekend where I was going to have the party ambushed by a group of monstrous humanoids. After looking at the statblock for Gnolls, Hobgoblins and Bugbears though, I noticed a... discrepancy.
The stats for all 3 of these monsters are very, very similar. Similar HP, similar attack, similar damage... but not similar CR. Hobgoblins are CR 1/2, Gnolls are CR 1 and Bugbears are CR 2.
What am I missing that is supposed to make a Bugbear as challenging as 3 Hobgoblins? I think a hobgoblin would stand a good chance 1v1 with a bugbear, so one of these monsters must be mis-CRed.
DesolateHarmony
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Bugbears have their two feats in skill-related things, but hobgoblins have gone straight to combat, and have a PC class level (fighter). Bugbears are 3 hit-die creatures with no class levels. I think this demonstrates the power of class levels.
Note that bugbears have many more skills, including a perception of +8 vs. the hobgoblin's +2. This can have an impact on many encounters. The fighter level for the hobgoblins is very important for combat. They would be less impressive losing a feat with a warrior level.
| Paladin of Baha-who? |
A bugbear has 3 racial hit dice, BAB of +2, and +3 natural armor. A Gnoll has 2 racial hit dice, a BAB of +1, and +2 natural armor. A hobgoblin is a PC-appropriate race and accordingly has no racial hit dice, so its CR is determined by its class level. A level 1 character with PC (as opposed to NPC) class has a CR of Class level-1 (in the weird CR math where 1-1=1/2)
That said, I agree that the CR system is a little off in this regard. The Hobgoblin in the bestiary (a level 1 fighter) is going to be at least as tough as the Gnoll.
| Strannik |
A lot of it probably has to do w/ the tactics the creatures use. You can expect a Bug Bear to attempt to sneak attack the party, do as much damage as it can quickly and then possibly retreat to annoy the party over a prolonged period of time (if it can manage it).
Three Hobgoblins would probably not be successful at such tactics, b/c of having a +5 to stealth instead of a +10 (like the bug bear), but they could use Aid Other to make hitting more likely.
It's always important to consider how creatures use their stats, along w/ what the stats are.
| David knott 242 |
What discrepancy? All three are standard savage humanoid warriors with no super powerful abilities. Hobgoblins have 1 HD and are CR 1/2, Gnolls have 2 HD and are CR 1, and Bugbears have 3 HD and are CR 2. That looks like a reasonably and consistent pattern to me.
jadelyon
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Something is seriously weird with the Hobgoblin.
The stats show 17 HP (1d10+7). Toughness gives them +3, and Con 16 gives +3, where is the extra +1 coming from? Also, 1d10+7 should default to 13, not 17 shouldn't it? Or 12 if it's +6 like it seems it should be.
If they had 12 HP, it might make better sense.
DesolateHarmony
|
Something is seriously weird with the Hobgoblin.
The stats show 17 HP (1d10+7). Toughness gives them +3, and Con 16 gives +3, where is the extra +1 coming from? Also, 1d10+7 should default to 13, not 17 shouldn't it? Or 12 if it's +6 like it seems it should be.
If they had 12 HP, it might make better sense.
The hobgoblin has a level in fighter. Since this is a pc class, it gets max hit points at 1st level. That said, it should have 16 hp, not 17.