The first way, though your GM shouldn't allow you to ever use it.
"LOOK! I have a +5 longsword, but it's only usuable by Paladins! 30% off the normal +5 longsword!"
It's honestly a terrible rule that shouldn't really be implemented under most cases except maybe if the item is only useful to one class. Now, if you had an item that allowed a barbarian to regain a round of rage for every enemy he killed that could reasonably have the discount applied since it's really only useful to one class.
Overall, I have found that magical item creation is probably the most broken and abused system within the game of Pathfinder and I have personally banned its use in creating anything besides potions, wands, and scrolls.
As Claxon says, always multiply combining percentages, don't add discounts. So the item would be 3500g.
I also agree with Claxon that this is generally a bad idea.
I have done it once. I made an Amulet of Mighty Claws for my druid. It was an Amulet of Mighty Fists but only worked when he was wildshaped. The idea is that the PC pays less for an item that is only useful at some times (the PC was a human, so the amulet was entirely useless when not in animal form). I offered him this option so he wouldn't feel like wildshape was entirely pointless.
To simply say "this is only used by good wizards so it should only be 4900g not 10000g" is gaming the system.
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I'm of the camp that believes that the conditional discount should only apply to the purchase price, not the cost to create. Basically it's not any cheaper or easier to make a sword only useable by paladins, but it will sell for less when you want to get rid of it because there is less of a market.
Applying restrictions too freely leads to a situation where all items should be made to only work for the person who commisioned them, and all your party's found magic treasure becomes functionally worthless.
Also remember that any custom item is GM perogative. I highly recommend your GM not allow abuses of the creation system to get meaningful discounts for meaningless restrictions.
It definitely makes sense that restrictions on an item shouldn't reduce the creation cost any versus an item without the restrictions if they're otherwise identical. You would have to use at least the same materials, energy, magic etc for the restricted items as compared to the non-restricted. It does make sense to affect the re-sale/purchase value since you have a more limited market that you're trying to sell it to.
I agree that these limitations on custom items shouldn't(/don't) decrease cost, but they do decrease price(less demand).
But I was unaware of such rules for PF, is this in one of the rulebooks? if so, which one? if not, then where?
Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.
Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%.
Note that the skill use reduces cost, but class or alignment reduces price. Since it is not explicitly stated, neither affects the other. So an item that needs a specific skill to use costs the crafter 10% less, but you buy it at full price, and an item that needs a specific class or alignment costs the same to make as an unrestricted item, but you can buy it at a 30% discount.
Note that the skill use reduces cost, but class or alignment reduces price. Since it is not explicitly stated, neither affects the other. So an item that needs a specific skill to use costs the crafter 10% less, but you buy it at full price, and an item that needs a specific class or alignment costs the same to make as an unrestricted item, but you can buy it at a 30% discount.Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.
Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%.
You're correct that "Cost" and "Price" are two different things, but they are directly linked.
Under the Magic Item Creation rules (and in other places as well) it says "While item creation costs are handled in detail below..." followed almost immediately by "Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp. For many items, the market price equals the base price."
Also, each item creation section makes the same reference, that the cost of the items is 1/2 of the price of the items.
So, using this (Cost = 1/2 Price, but not the other way around - it never says that Price = 2x Cost) in conjunction with the rules you quoted:
Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%. For example, a Wand of Cure Light Wounds would be priced at 750 and would cost 375 to make, if it required Knowledge (Religion) to use, would be priced at 750 and would cost 312.5 GP to make, since the discount only affects the cost.
But...
Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%. For example, a Wand of Cure Light Wounds that is only usable by bards would adjust the Price to 525 (750 - 30%) and since Cost = 1/2 Price, that means the Cost is 262.5.
Side note, I vehemently disagree with how these discounts work and I never let any PCs or NPCs use any discounts at all in my games. I'm just trying to clear up the technicalities of how the RAW says the discounts works.
We've never had a problem with the discounts in our games. Sure, the wizard made his Boots of Levitation "for wizards only" and saved 30%, but the rogue got his +1 dagger in a drop and it cost him nothing. And, the wizard used a feat to be able to craft the boots, while the rogue used his feat to get "weapon focus-dagger".
Besides that, when someone suggests the wizard loan his boots to the rogue to attempt to disable that trap set in the ceiling, the response is, "Sorry, they only work for me."
Should the wizard try to sell the boots later, he's going to find a much narrower market AND have to sell at 30% less than for out-of-the-book boots.
Finally, it makes sense that dwarves would make armor and axes that only work their extra wonders for dwarves and elves make bows that only elves can use to full effect. We incorporate that into our games, so the players know that they will sometimes find restricted items because NPC's have access to the same discount.
I think that for items that are obviously class-specific, a discount is not necessarily game-breaking.
For example MurphysParadox's example of an Amulet of Might Claws - not only was it specifically restricted to Druids, it functioned only when the Druid was in Wild Shape.
However, I agree that picking up a Wand of Cure X "Bard Only" just for the discount isn't that kosher (mostly because in the majority of the games I'm in, every character has their own 'healthstick' anyway).
Kantrip, that's fine and dandy, but now the question is, why doesn't EVERY SINGLE CRAFTER in the whole world do this? If EVERYONE can get 30% or even 60% off the price of everything they make, why don't they ALWAYS do it???
If it were actually easier and cheaper and less time consuming to make a +2 Belt of Might for only Lawful Fighters, then when Fred the Lawful Fighter goes to buy a +2 Belt, he would expect to only pay 1,960gp instead of 4,000gp. Even if he has 4,000gp in his pocket, and the only belt for sale is a universally usable 4,000gp belt, he might just decide to go find a wizard and pay him 1,960gp to make one that only Lawful Fighters can use so he can get it at half price, it only takes two days after all.
That same wizard would never make a universal Wand of Fireballs for himself, it would always be a Wizard-only Wand of Fireballs only usable by his alignment, and he could make it for half price.
EVERYBODY would do this, ALL THE TIME.
EVERY magic item would be highly restrictive based on what the creator intended at the time.
Every item your players find should always be restricted. And the only way they would ever find anything they could use is if they limited themselves to hunting bad guys of the same races and alignments that are found amongst the PCs themselves.
Furthermore, when that rogue gets a few more levels and wants a +2 dagger, instead of waiting to find one (that could take forever unless he is killing/robbing other rogues of his same race and alignment), he could just ask his wizard friend to make one that is only usable by Rogues of whatever his alignment is. It would only cost 3,920gp instead of the usual 8,000gp.
If one thinks these silly discounts through to their logical conclusion, and applies even a modicum of supply/demand economics to the magic item economy of the world, it gets very crazy very fast.
Now, admittedly, it might be fun and even kind of realistic. After the party wipes out the Goblin Halls, they return to town with a dozen "Goblin-only" magic items. Maybe some mage might buy all of them for a few thousand gold, just enough for the fighter to pay that mage to make him a Fighter-only sword and the rogue might get a Rogue-only dagger. It sure would make Use Magical Device into the most amazingly important skill in the game. It would be a great way for the GM to limit magic items and provide a sense of Verisimilitude. But it is very, very different than the way magical treasures are presented in every dungeon and AP sold by Paizo.
I just want to say that the magic item creation system isn't particularly broken or abusable as a whole. There are just a few specific cases where it gives odd results and those are pretty easy to spot. Then there's the fact that many of the existing items in the book have had the same price for several versions of the game with no connection to the item creation guidelines which throws a lot of people off.
But yeah, I agree that you shouldn't use the class/alignment restrictions to get a break on making items. The skill restriction may or may not be worth a break, but there's nothing that says what a skill restriction is. Is it just you have to be trained in a skill, or you have to make a skill roll to activate the item? (I think the latter would actually be worth something.)
Kantrip, that's fine and dandy, but now the question is, why doesn't EVERY SINGLE CRAFTER in the whole world do this? If EVERYONE can get 30% or even 60% off the price of everything they make, why don't they ALWAYS do it???
If it were actually easier and cheaper and less time consuming to make a +2 Belt of Might for only Lawful Fighters, then when Fred the Lawful Fighter goes to buy a +2 Belt, he would expect to only pay 1,960gp instead of 4,000gp. Even if he has 4,000gp in his pocket, and the only belt for sale is a universally usable 4,000gp belt, he might just decide to go find a wizard and pay him 1,960gp to make one that only Lawful Fighters can use so he can get it at half price, it only takes two days after all.
Probably for the same reason in the real-world a company doesn't make just one size of clothing or cars that only a left-handed person can drive. It would be cheaper if Levi made just one style and size of jeans, or GM made one model of car and that for left handed people, but they would greatly reduce their market and have to raise prices.
If a PC is a crafter, he makes the class/alignment based for himself at the reduced price. But if he's making the item to sell, he would probably have to raise the price because he'd have his gold investment tied up longer waiting to sell it. Or he'd sell it to a magic item dealer at the same 30% he spent making it to get a quick sell.
The DM could easily handle the situation with an NPC spell-caster by having him tell the fighter it was more time consuming to make that specialty belt just for him because he has to attune it, etc, so he would have to charge 4500 GP for it.
Even if it's not true that it cost the NPC more to make doesn't mean he wouldn't do it that way. Look at how much more they charge for sugar-free items than for items with sugar. You know it's not costing more to leave out the sugar, but it reduces the potential customer base, and therefore they raise the price. However, if the manufacture was making the sugar-free items just for their use, it would be cheaper to them.
Of course, this is a fantasy world, but the economic system is still based on the real-world economy model of supply and demand.
If you stack percentages multiplicatively instead of additively, three 30% off modifiers would give you 65.7% off, not 90% off. Still a big break, but not as big.
Kantrip, that's fine and dandy, but now the question is, why doesn't EVERY SINGLE CRAFTER in the whole world do this?Probably for the same reason in the real-world a company doesn't make just one size of clothing or cars that only a left-handed person can drive.
I disagree. Modern factories produce hundreds or thousands of identical products every hour and they distribute and sell those at massive levels.
A medieval (or Golarion) magical item crafter makes one item that takes days or weeks to produce and sells it once. Usually because someone commissioned him to make it. If he really is just a magical item factory, cranking out random items to sell randomly in the market, he'll probably go broke.
It would be cheaper if Levi made just one style and size of jeans, or GM made one model of car and that for left handed people, but they would greatly reduce their market and have to raise prices.
I don't think that's the correct analogy.
Imagine if Levi made a pair of jeans for $50 and this one pair could fit EVERYONE of all sizes, but they also made a pair of jeans for $35 that fit you perfectly. Would you pay $35 for the pair that fits you perfectly or would you pay $50 for a pair that fits everyone perfectly, including you?
Me, I would save my $15 and buy the cheaper pair that fits me perfectly.
If a PC is a crafter, he makes the class/alignment based for himself at the reduced price.
Sure, I agree.
But if he's making the item to sell, he would probably have to raise the price because he'd have his gold investment tied up longer waiting to sell it. Or he'd sell it to a magic item dealer at the same 30% he spent making it to get a quick sell.
Not if he is making it to order. If Fred the Lawful Fighter hires a guy to make him a Belt of Might, and Fred has the choice of paying 1,960gp or 4,000gp, what do you think Fred will do?
If there is a generic belt usable by everyone on the Magic-Mart shelf, and Fred has 4,000gp in his pocket, he'd have to be stupid or desperate to buy it - he could just find a mage and pay him 1,960gp to make it in two days, and then he could spend all that money he saved on a magical sword and magical armor, too.
The DM could easily handle the situation with an NPC spell-caster by having him tell the fighter it was more time consuming to make that specialty belt just for him because he has to attune it, etc, so he would have to charge 4500 GP for it.
Sure, but that's not what the rulebook says.
Even if it's not true that it cost the NPC more to make doesn't mean he wouldn't do it that way. Look at how much more they charge for sugar-free items than for items with sugar. You know it's not costing more to leave out the sugar, but it reduces the potential customer base, and therefore they raise the price. However, if the manufacture was making the sugar-free items just for their use, it would be cheaper to them.
That's not true. It's not like sugar-free foods are just bitter and bad-tasting; they don't just withhold the sugar, they REPLACE the sugar with other sweeteners. Diet Coke is made with Aspartame instead of sugar. Sugar grows naturally, Aspartame is produced in a lab, and Coke and Diet Coke each have ONE sweetener in them and they both cost exactly the same on the store shelves.
Of course, this is a fantasy world, but the economic system is still based on the real-world economy model of supply and demand.
On that we agree.
If a magical item crafter can reduce the cost to less than half the normal price by making it "custom made" for the user (himself or any paying customer), then surely he would. If the paying customer knows he can get any item at half price if he just has a bit of patience and the foresight to order it a couple days in advance.
Even more interesting, if some rich nobleman pays for a +5 Vorpal Sword and wanders around town bragging about it and showing it off, every thief in the land will be trying to steal that and every cutthroat in the land will be trying to kill the guy to steal that sword - but if it is tailor made so that only that nobleman can ever use it, then not only did he get it for a fraction of the price, but now nobody wants to steal it anymore. This is a BENEFIT to him and seems like it should cost more, not less.
Which is why I said that I vehemently disagree with these discounts.
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It can seem a strange thought in modern times, but medieval crafters crafted item that were meant to last generations, not items that were meant to be usable by Lord hight and Mighty I but would be useless for his son the Not so Mighty Lord.
The vorpal sword that can be used only by a lawful fighter is useless for you Cavalier son.
Beside that you will have a hard time reselling the item if its use is severely restricted. Often you will try to upgrade it, but sometime you will want to switch to a different item that suit better your character development.
All included, the discounts generally are a bad idea if they have no meaning beside reducing the cost of the item. They are useful only when they are linked to the reason d'etre of the item.
Just to add SKR opinion about that:
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When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating. Observe:Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6. Cost to create: 18,000 gp
vs.
Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6, but it only works for male humans (discount!) named Ezren (discount!) who are at least "old" age (discount) and were born in Absalom (discount!). Cost to create: ridiculously cheap, even though it works exactly like a standard headband +6.
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Now I want a ring of invisibility that you have to do a backflip to activate.
