Question for feats with 2 handed weapon requirements.

[KonLesh]

My basic question is: When wielding a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands, can you use feats that require the use of a 2-handed weapon?

The scenario was a game that I recently played in. One of the other players had his earth breaker disarmed and thrown 15 feat away (with the use of great disarm feat). So he quick drew a short sword that he had on his person and declared a full round attack action while wielding the short sword with both hands. He also declared that he was using the feat shield of swings. This caused a bit of a debate because shield of swings only says that it works with 2 handed weapons.

The player's argument was that since he was wielding it with 2 hands then it should work since it is being used as a 2 handed weapon. The DM countered that another feat (furious focus) specially states that it works with a 2 handed weapon or a 1 handed weapon wielded in 2 hands. Since shield of swings doesn't have that extra option then it can't be used in that way. The player eventually relented and didn't use shield of swings. But this does still strike me as a bit wrong as to why furious focus works but not shield of swings. So I wanted to just ask and see what you guys have to say?

And following with the same topic, what about the bastard sword? A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon or 1 handed exotic weapon with a feat. Can you use shield of swings with the bastard sword?

[blackbloodtroll]

Light, One-handed, and Two-handed, are classifications of weapons.

Wielding it a different manner, does not change it's classification.

So, an One-handed weapon does not become a Two-handed weapon when wielded in two hands.

Classification is more about effort required, not effort used.

This means, that a feat, that works with only one classification of weapon, can't be used with another classification of weapon, simply because you decide to wield the weapon differently.

Also, a Bastard Sword remains a One-handed weapon, no matter what feats you do, or do not have. It just happens to be an One-handed weapon, that cannot be wielded in one hand, without a feat.

[Gauss]

And yet, the new FAQ regarding two-handed weapons in one hand would seem to indicate that you apply the common sense perspective of 'how many hands are on the weapon'.

You know, all of this could be easily fixed by reclassifying weapons as light, moderate, and heavy. Then anything that applies to the weapon itself is based on a word that is not also confused with how many hands you are currently using. Oh well. :)

- Gauss

[Avianfoo]

"Wielded in two hands" is not the same as a "two-handed weapon", since you can wield light, one-handed and two-handed weapons in two hands. It does not make all weapons suddenly two-handed weapons.

Shield of Swings is pretty specific:

Shield of Swings wrote:

When you take a full-attack action while wielding a two-handed weapon, you can choose to reduce the damage by 1/2 to gain a +4 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the beginning of your next turn. The reduction in damage applies until the beginning of your next turn.

So good call GM.

As for a bastard sword: its listed as a one-handed exotic weapon, so it seems that Shield of Swings will not function with it. however, in the spirit of the feat, the bastard sword is a massive weapon and I would allow it as GM.

As a side note:

Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons wrote:

Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only.

Short swords are light so it would give no appreciable bonus wielding it in 2 hands.

[blackbloodtroll]

Gauss wrote:

And yet, the new FAQ regarding two-handed weapons in one hand would seem to indicate that you apply the common sense perspective of 'how many hands are on the weapon'.

You know, all of this could be easily fixed by reclassifying weapons as light, moderate, and heavy. Then anything that applies to the weapon itself is based on a word that is not also confused with how many hands you are currently using. Oh well. :)

- Gauss

No. Those abilities state that you treat them as a different classification of weapon.

So, whilst the FAQ sounds weird to you, it just sort of terribly repeats what the abilities they are referring to, do.

[KonLesh]

Still feels wrong to me, but I guess the rules are clear. Thank you to everyone for the answer.

[Nefreet]

If you're wielding an Earth Breaker and Klar, ala Thunder and Fang, you couldn't also use Shield of Swings, could you? Even though the EB is normally a two-handed weapon.

[Bigdaddyjug]

I would also like to point out that a short sword, as a light weapon, cannot be wielded in two hands.

[Shimesen]

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

I would also like to point out that a short sword, as a light weapon, cannot be wielded in two hands.

yes it can, it simply does nothing from a mechanical point of view. i could hold a tiny dagger in two hands as a large creature if i wanted to. i just wouldn't get any bonus from doing so.

[Nefreet]

A large creature cannot wield a tiny dagger. It goes beyond the two-handed, one-handed, and light-weapon categories.

[Nefreet]

A medium creature can wield:

a huge-sized, light weapon in two hands
a large-sized, 1H weapon in two hands
a large-sized, light weapon in one hand
a medium-sized, 2H weapon in two hands
a medium-sized, 1H weapon in one hand
a medium-sized, light weapon in one hand
a small-sized, 2H weapon in one hand
a small-sized, 1H weapon in one hand (as a light weapon)
a tiny-sized, 2H weapon in one hand (as a light weapon)

Adjust those sizes up or down accordingly for large- and small-sized wielders.

[Bigdaddyjug]

Shimesen wrote:

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

I would also like to point out that a short sword, as a light weapon, cannot be wielded in two hands.

yes it can, it simply does nothing from a mechanical point of view. i could hold a tiny dagger in two hands as a large creature if i wanted to. i just wouldn't get any bonus from doing so.

No you cannot. Read the description of light, one-handed, and two-handed weapons. It says light weapons are wielded in one hand. It gives no option to wield them in two hands. One-handed weapons give you an option, and two-handed weapons require two hands.

[ArmouredMonk13]

And if you read the rest of the section on light weapons, you realize that it never says you can't wield it in two hands, and in fact it specifically states that you don't apply 1&1/2 damage on a light weapon when 2 hand wielding it. If you were in capable of wielding it in 2 hands, it would say somewhere that you can't wield it in 2 hands.