We're using the Savage Species from 3x, running gestalt with PF rules. I ended up with a djinni ninja.
I kept dying, initially, because of a horrifically low CON score. It was easy to drop my poor not-rogue into the deadbook. After some stat bumps and hit dice under my belt, I'm still having the same problem.
There are two conclusions to draw:
1. The character I've created is effectively unplayable.
2. I don't know what the frack I'm doing.
I'm going to lean on number two for my answer.
The invisibility trick ninjas get has been my bread and butter, along with the djinni's ability to become invisible at-will. There's that problem of basically being one-and-done with sneak attack, though.
Flanking is great for SA characters who have hit points and high defenses. I do not. Throwing weapons, and ranged weapons, just don't seem to offer the same damage or crit potential that wicked little things like rapiers and wakizashis do, at least not without serious feat investment, at first glance. After all, even iterative attacks don't get SA on them at range, because they're now aware of you, and any further attacks deal... awful damage, for a damage-dealing class.
Any tips or tricks to solving the problem of consistently getting SA, not dying, but also not being That Guy Who Doesn't Actually Join Combat? Even our succubi sorceress was willing to walk into the middle of some really nasty baddies last night and drop an acid ball centered on herself to clear the field somewhat.
I'm new to PF, and don't really know the system, beyond the 3x mechanics it's been built off of, so a lot of the system is, "What was that?!" to me lately, as I try to figure out as I go.
Help me stop sucking at being a ninja. Gotta become hokage someday, right...? (No, sorry, never mind. Just pretend I didn't even try to go there.)
Stats would help, as I don't think most of us have any idea what savage species Gestalt would look like.
I assume it's something other than a standard djinni with class levels.
I'll have the stat block for you once I get home from work, then.
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If you are a ninja then take Deny Death feat. It helps to raise your AC and if you take Spring Attack if so you only spend an attack in combat. It doesn't really work with TWF, but it is fairly effective for 2HF. Do this and swift action invisible after the full-round action.
The first thing that comes to mind is that you shouldn't worry about crits, because your SA is not multiplied by crits.
Yes, ranged attacks aren't that great except on the opener, but with shurikens it can be one hell of an opener.
Any tips or tricks to solving the problem of:
1) consistently getting SA: Have someone that can flank with you. If that's not possible, be invisible and delay until someone else gets attacked and then move into flanking. lol. Use a combination of delayed and readied actions (depends on the encounter) to get into flanking positions. But seriously, if no one is going to flank with you, pick a different class.
2) not dying: Don't be the first one to attack or charge. Using invisibility to get into a flanking position so you're not relying on acrobatics (tends not to work at higher levels). Have someone else get into the flanking position so you don't get surrounded. Get at least 12 Con. Offensive Defensive rogue talent. In general, being strategic.
Why does your AC suck, are you using a Str rogue? If yes then switch to a Dex rogue and put the Agile enchantment on your weapons eventually. And then pump your Dex.
3) also not being That Guy Who Doesn't Actually Join Combat: If you want to be a guy who just wades into combat like the Juggernaut, pick a different class. It's probably the best bet for someone new to PFS.
I don't want to be the juggernaut, but I do recognize the fact that if a player doesn't engage in combat, then all the expect damage the party is supposed to take lands on the shoulders of the one guy who can't fly.
This should cover all the numbers that can't be found on the PFSRD. AMA if there's something you don't see that you need to know about. I'll do my best to have a prompt answer.
...
NINJA/DJINNI - 6/6
STR: 20, DEX: 22, CON: 11, INT: 16, WIS: 12, CHA: 15
HP: 41
Init: 10
AC: 24, TOUCH: 16:, FF: 14
F/R/W: 3/11/4
Melee: 10, Ranged: 10, CMB: 9, CMD: 25
=====
GEAR
=====
Wakizashi, +1 Evil Outsider Bane (bought)
Wakizashi, +1 Undead Bane (drop)
Rapier, +1 Heartseeker (drop)
Chakram
Shurkien
================
RACIAL ABILITIES
================
Telepathy 100'
Fly 30'
Air Mastery
Invisibility (at-will, per the spell, self-only)
Whirlwind (1/day)
Plane Shift (2/day, per the spell, self-only)
Create Food & Water (1/day)
Create Wine (1/day)
Gaseous Form (1/day)
============
NINJA TRICKS
============
Vanishing Trick
Shadow Clones
(Rogue Talent) Fast Getaway
=====
FEATS
=====
Weapon Finesse (bonus, djinni 1)
[1] Toughness
Dodge (bonus, djinni assigned)
[3] Extra Ki
Improved Initiative (bonus, djinni assigned)
Opening Volley (bonus, djinni 5)
[5] Grave Risen (DM signed off on it)
To be fair, though, the last death was kind of on the whole party and not just my own foolishness in taking on an "optional boss fight."
There was a splinter drake (??? -- it was made of wood, had a breath weapon of splinters and poison, and looked like a dragon without wings -- ???) that we could have let just walk through the map and ignore us, but I think someone took offense to being damaged by its breath weapon.
Instead of letting it prove its point that it was bigger and badder (so we can come back later and kick it to the curb), we responded in kind, and engaged in a long, brutal battle that (I think) left most of us bloodied, and me dead for the 3rd time since the campaign began.
While this magic item wouldn't solve your ranged SA problem, it would help offset your ability to SA at a range of greater than 60 feet. Sniper Goggles would allow you to make a sneak attack from as far away as you wanted to so long as you could actually shoot that far, and they grant a bonus to your SA damage within 30 feet of you, though it's an expensive magic item that you might wanna hold off on till you're stronger, little grasshopper.
*Ahem* That said, I don't know of this 'Djinni' class you've spoken of, only the races of Djin that exist within pathfinder as encounters. Perhaps you could post a link for those of us not familiar with the Djinni class?
Not without violating copyright, I can't. Sorry... I'll try to reproduce the table when I have a chance, though, of the levels and abilities.
It came out of "Savage Species." Page 162.
I too play a Ninja. Fetchling.
When I had a barbarian flanking buddy-- I felt awesome. I could SA all day long... and the barbarian still pulled all the aggro.
Then the barbarians player left... and I became the only melee character in a party of 5. Um. No. Suddenly all my awesomeness was gone, and I was getting pounded on.
So I feel your pain.
My solutions include;
1. adding tank hirelings to flank with me
2. having our summoner summon critters to flank with me
3. getting awesome initiative (+16) and hitting the bad guys flat-footed (all attacks, count as sneak attacks if enemy is flat-footed.)
4. some kind soul on the boards recommended the Quick Runner's Shirt. Gives an extra movement! Aka... full movement and then full attack! And its only 1000gp.
5. others have mentioned, and I cannot agree enough, explore the wide, wide world of shuriken. they are only a d2 of damage you say? yes, but who cares? d2+4d6 of damage! Its the 4d6 (at 7th) you care about.
With Flurry of Stars you get 4 of them! If you hit a flat-footed target you have the potential of 4d2+16d6... before the enemy has moved!
So full attack, then swift action vanish! (altho, you have to choose between vanishing, flurrying, or extra moving with quick shirt, as your swift action)
Next turn... full attack with shuriken, swift action vanish, 5'step.
My GM is kind and lets me throw 2 at once to get SA with both hands, before becoming visible.
Next turn... full attack with shuriken, swift action vanish, 5'step.
Repeat as needed.
And yes, you have to be 10' away, but unless they have reach, they won't be able to get a full attack on you! They'll have to move and only get a standard attack against you.
Shuriken don't need the Quick Draw feat, you can do that automatically.
Shuriken are cheap. Get all the flavors-- silver, cold iron, adamantine, +1, etc.
Take feats that increase your range and accuracy.
If you want variety, look into poisons, smoke bombs, darkness spells from your friends (does your djinn have darkvision)
But thrown things (shuriken!) are your friends.
So thems my hints. If you get some more good ideas, I'll be looking on with interest.
Djinni do have darkvision for 60'.
Are poisons really worth it? I haven't explored it much, but I always heard it was a rule of thumb that alchemy and poison just weren't worth the time, considering the saves on available poisons. ...is there a poisoner's guide?
Get the Ninja trick: Offense/Defense. That will help a lot.
Other things:
The Dodge Feat will help.
Pumping Dex for AC.
Amulet of protection, A ring of protection for +1 AC each.
Feat: Tribal Scars or Toughness will help a bit.
Also,
For building a Ninja with less than 12 CON is a death wish. I go out of my way to make every character I build to have 14 CON....but that's just me.
I'm going to retrain my feats that don't say "djinni assigned."
I'm thinking two should at least be the one that lets me increase a range increment, plus the one that gives me +1 to attack and damage within 30'.
The unfortunate truth is that I do not have decent flanking buddies. Here's our party makeup:
- succubus sorcerer who can fly
- avoral ranged paladin (how he shoots his bow and keeps flapping his wings is still beyond me, they should be mutually exclusive, one would imagine)
- nymph monk who can't fly
- hound archon battle oracle (I don't know if he can fly yet - he wasn't at the last session)
- ogre mage paladin who has attendance issues
So no one who's really been willing to sit in one place so far and help me maximize flanking.
My current two ninja tricks that don't grant me invisibility... I'll probably swap those for the shurkien flurry and one of the two tricks you recommend (off/def, befuddle).
I can't afford the runner's shirt yet, but I think I will put it on my wish list for later, absolutely. Maybe I could sell off that heartseeker rapier...
My DM thinks that a two-handed weapon with reach would help me get some desperately-needed space, too. I have proficiency in all simple and martial weapons as a djinni, so I really have my pick. Also, free actions to let go with one hand and fling shurikens on an as-needed basis.
Until recently, my default has been, "We're not in combat. I'm invisible!" Whenever combat opens, I'm usually set in that respect. Standard action to turn back to invisible after opening with something thrown is a rough call, though. I try to ration my ki points throughout the day, but maybe I should be more aggressive in using them to stay alive longer.
I don't mind being mid-to-short range, switching between thrown weapons and melee. I just want to be good at doing it.
The expedient retreat trick (a rogue talent granted by a ninja trick) seemed like a good investment, but I didn't get a chance to use it last session. Moreso now that I'm looking at getting something with reach on it.
Any opinions?
I will work on seeing who wants to do some flanking, next time they attend.
Shurkien flurry is a ranged attack and thus works best off those feats...which are many. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot.
Also, it does crap damage unless you're victim is denied dex - sneak attack. If you're using invisibility for that, only your first ranged attack is a sneak attack. In short - if you're not multiclassing or aren't level 10 for invisibility blade - shurkien flurry is full of suck.
You could go ST weapon and use reach and that works great, but it lends itself to entirely different feats: Power Attack, Furious Focus, etc. Whereas your two weapon build uses Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse. Both work - but they play entirely different. For me, if I wanted to go with a ST build I'd use some other class: Paladin, Fighter, Barb etc.
Ouch on that party make up. You're screwed with that setup unless they summon things to help you with flanks.