So my necromancer cleric of Hanspur needs a signature weapon. Of course it will be a trident, that being Hanspur's favored weapon. Here's what I'd like to be able to do with it :
Cast Command Undead as from a staff.
Cast any first or second level cleric spell as from a staff (so I can use my spell slots to recharge the item)
Maybe be able to have a Desecrate aura I can switch on or off. That's probably too powerful though huh?
Let me "store" negative energy for use later (up to 3 charges)
Have the Defending property.
I'd kind of like to squeeze in distance and returning as well, but it's not vital. Failing that, some kind of status effect on a melee hit would be flavorful.
if it helps for flavor purposes... my cleric is Chaotic Neutral, is an Aasimar, and has the Travel and Chaos (Protean) domains. He is currently level 2 and a half. He's not an aggressive combatant, preferring to sit back, summon, and control his minions, while buffing and tossing the occasional heal.
How would you go about budgeting and building the item?
That's not a weapon, that's a friggin' artifact!
Can't you just make a staff, and describe it as having decorative prongs resembling those of a trident?
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Connect the holy symbol of Hanspur to a distance, defending, returning trident and cast all your spells through that. For the negative energy charges, maybe make it a +2 bonus on a weapon and just be an extra d6 of negative energy damage (same as elemental burst qualities but harder to resist and can heal undead if you do non-lethal with it because negative energy). Clear this with your GM and buy a +6 trident with these bonuses. The desecrate aura is way too powerful. Then boom done. Cast spells through it, check. Distance, Defending, Returning, check. Negative Energy charges, check. Desecrate Aura, remove from list.
@ ArmouredMonk13 : Yeah, I suspected the desecrate aura would be way over the top. Wasn't sure if there would be a "toned down" way to do it, or not. First and foremost I need to be able to cast Command Undead from this weapon, to enable my third undead pool. Outside of the lame Inevitable domain (which has it as a late entry spell), the only way a cleric is going to be able to cast it is via a wand or staff with UMD. And the only way I can recharge a staff with that spell on it is by either having it on my spell list, or having a different spell that IS on my spell list, hence my need for a 1st or 2nd level cleric spell. According to the guide for necromancer clerics I found, a staff with command undead on it costs 6400 gold. So that's a starting point I guess.
I think there's already a modifier to do what you said, it's called grayflame. That may be what I want.
@VRMH ha, yeah, I suppose with EVERYTHING, it would be. And I kind of had a vision of it ending up as such, but I would add the properties over time, starting with Command Undead, and an as -yet unnamed 1st or 2nd level cleric spell. Then adding Defending, and deciding whether I wanted to just make a beeline for a +5 bonus, or to add some ranged properties as well. I think without the desecrate aura, it's actually not an overpowering weapon, after all, who optimizes ANYTHING with a trident? Gladiators and fishermen maybe.
Basically what I'm trying to do is put properties normally only available on a staff (10 charges, the ability to cast two spells at my CL for 1 charge per cast..that would qualify as a very minor staff, probably less powerful than any in Ultimate Equipment) onto a trident, both for flavor purposes and so I can use the Defending property. How do you think that kind of space economy should be priced?
That's not a weapon, that's a friggin' artifact!
Can't you just make a staff, and describe it as having decorative prongs resembling those of a trident?
Couldn't agree more. I would suggest instead just getting a Trident, making it defending and talk to your GM about it being a Reliquary weapon. Don't even say the word 'staff'. The cheapest staff out there is a staff of blessed relief (2 0th and 1st level spells in it), which means about 6th level before you'd be able to purchase that. If / when you do want to upgrade to a "Staff", then talk to your GM about instead of it being a 'staff', fluff it as a trident. Many staffs can be used as quarterstaffs.... I wouldn't have an issue with swapping weapon type A for weapon type B if there was a reason for it.
But for the ones that are still curious, lets run numbers here for a minute.
Feat (Command Undead) I'll call a flat 10K (Based on Ioun stone pricing).
Desecration Aura.... Nearest analogue to that is a darkskull (unhallow effect for 60K). 5th for unhallow, plus a secondary effect. Desecrate is 2nd. Call it another 20K there sounds about right to me.
Crystal of healing hands allows a store of pally Lay on Hands energy (1 use thereof). 12K. Call it 36K for that ability given he wants 3 of them.
For it to be +1 defending, your looking at another 8K. Defending Returning.... +18K.
Finally, because it's additional effects on a single item, your looking at +50% per additional effect. Or does that scale based on how many effects? I forget.... I'll just flat 50% everything
By my maths, that's 126K. I remember reading at one point that WBL shouldn't allow you to have more than 50% of your gold in a single item, so your looking at somewhere around the 15th / 16th level mark before you'd be able to acquire this. I hope your VERY VERY patient.
And that's before you get to the trident's most useful ability. I can cast whatever spell I want to. That cannot be priced. Because it's a list of spells and you can choose which one you want to cast (I'm assuming at the cost of charges), I'd rather that ability alone as more powerful as a book of infinite spells, which IS a fully fledged artifact.
@ ArmouredMonk13 : Yeah, I suspected the desecrate aura would be way over the top. Wasn't sure if there would be a "toned down" way to do it, or not. First and foremost I need to be able to cast Command Undead from this weapon, to enable my third undead pool. Outside of the lame Inevitable domain (which has it as a late entry spell), the only way a cleric is going to be able to cast it is via a wand or staff with UMD. And the only way I can recharge a staff with that spell on it is by either having it on my spell list, or having a different spell that IS on my spell list, hence my need for a 1st or 2nd level cleric spell. According to the guide for necromancer clerics I found, a staff with command undead on it costs 6400 gold. So that's a starting point I guess.
I think there's already a modifier to do what you said, it's called grayflame. That may be what I want.@VRMH ha, yeah, I suppose with EVERYTHING, it would be. And I kind of had a vision of it ending up as such, but I would add the properties over time, starting with Command Undead, and an as -yet unnamed 1st or 2nd level cleric spell. Then adding Defending, and deciding whether I wanted to just make a beeline for a +5 bonus, or to add some ranged properties as well. I think without the desecrate aura, it's actually not an overpowering weapon, after all, who optimizes ANYTHING with a trident? Gladiators and fishermen maybe.
Basically what I'm trying to do is put properties normally only available on a staff (10 charges, the ability to cast two spells at my CL for 1 charge per cast..that would qualify as a very minor staff, probably less powerful than any in Ultimate Equipment) onto a trident, both for flavor purposes and so I can use the Defending property. How do you think that kind of space economy should be priced?
Oh... cast command undead.... like the spell... not the feat. Probably doesn't affect overall pricing too much. Staff of Eidolons is 14K and is the cheapest one that gives you access to a 2nd level (summoner) spell and a pair of 1st level ones. Call it 130 if you wanted to have only command undead. 135 if you wanted to also have a pair of lesser (1st level) spells in there that are thematically related to undead.
Either way, it's still well out of your price range for the next 10 levels.
So my necromancer cleric of Hanspur needs a signature weapon. Of course it will be a trident, that being Hanspur's favored weapon. Here's what I'd like to be able to do with it :
Cast Command Undead as from a staff.
Cast any first or second level cleric spell as from a staff (so I can use my spell slots to recharge the item)
A staff-trident for a priest of Hanspur seems reasonable. But why would it have command undead, when that isn't even a spell Hanspur grants?
Maybe be able to have a Desecrate aura I can switch on or off. That's probably too powerful though huh?
That should probably just be "has desecrate as one of it's spells"
Staff, with desecrate for 2 charges and command undead for 2 charges: 8*2*400+50*50+8*2*300=13,700.
Let me "store" negative energy for use later (up to 3 charges)
Lesser version: Look into consecrated equipment.
Have the Defending property.
I'd kind of like to squeeze in distance and returning as well, but it's not vital.
defending is crazy expensive. Crazy. Also, you're not primarily a fighter. Spending 72,000 on a bad combination of weapon enchantments is even dumber for your character.
Failing that, some kind of status effect on a melee hit would be flavorful.
"functions as a +1 Spell Storing Trident", +8,300 gp. Add your own status effect.
if it helps for flavor purposes... my cleric is Chaotic Neutral, is an Aasimar, and has the Travel and Chaos (Protean) domains. He is currently level 2 and a half. He's not an aggressive combatant, preferring to sit back, summon, and control his minions, while buffing and tossing the occasional heal.
How would you go about budgeting and building the item?
I would start by not planning a 100k+ item for a 2. level character.
Hey guys, thank you all for the really great input.
@ Ecaterina Duicard : Thank you for digging through that for me!! I totally missed the darkskull. That is precisely what I'm looking for, though I'd like one I could activate / deactivate. Yeah, 15th - 16th is about where I'd mentally placed it in my head, it's Kingmaker so there will hopefully be business opportunities to help with some of the costs. You have been a huge help! And yeah, I need it to have command undead (spell) AND a first or second level cleric spell (because I read somewhere that you can only use your spell slots to recharge a staff item if you have at least one of the spells on your spell list)
@ Pupsocket : Well, it would have command undead because it's a weapon that I'm making personalized for my cleric....something that will be distinctively his. And his devotion to Hanspur is a large part of who he is, but not in its entirety. It's not necessarily a holy relic of the church (such as it is) of Hanspur.
Totally seems reasonable to just have desecrate as one of its spells.
Okay yeah. Distance and Returning aren't great. Especially since Returning makes no use of iterative attacks. Defending, however, is something I really want for it.
Had thought about Spell Storing, that would probably work just fine for that.
As to the cost, what I'm PLANNING is just building or having this item built for me in stages, not having it fall from the sky all at once. Like I said, I'm hoping to have a trident, that casts Command Undead, by level 8-9 ish. And then adding from there. Hopefully it works out like I want it to, but what ever does? Ha.
How much would you think a darkskull with the added ability to switch the unhallow effect on or off at will would be? Maybe if that were in place of the additional spell effect? Seems like a killer item for a necromancer, but there will be times when a mobile zone of unholy energy will make diplomacy a difficult proposition..
As i've said before, thank you very much for your input , it's very much appreciated and instructional for me.
For this, I'd basically just make the magic weapon, make the staff and add the prices together, though your GM might want to add some surcharge for combining the two (typically 50% extra on the lower of the two prices).
For staffs, the way you price those is to set the caster level (at least high enough to cast the highest level spell), then it's caster level * spell level * 400 / charges to use for each spell. The highest level spell gets added at full price, the second highest at 75% and all others at 50%.
When upgrading items, calculate the full value of the new item and pay the difference.