Hypothetically, Say I have a party of 4 fighters using greatswords and nothing else. If They encounter an enemy with a fly speed of 20ft, can the enemy just fly up 20' in the air and hover there and take them out with ranged attacks?
Yep.
Flying up makes you move at half speed and needs a DC 20 Fly check to go STRAIGHT up though.
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Hence the reason for things like bows, and potions of fly.
I'm assuming that Darkness up there is gming the 20 flight speed creature and is trying to keep said creature from dying at the hands of 4 fighters. Assumption aside, yes, such a tactic could save the monster and kill the party, assuming none of the fighters attempts a DC 35 acrobatics check to jump 10 feet up to slice through the creature with a standard action. With 4 fighters attempting that action, one of them is bound to get through.
I'm assuming that Darkness up there is gming the 20 flight speed creature and is trying to keep said creature from dying at the hands of 4 fighters. Assumption aside, yes, such a tactic could save the monster and kill the party, assuming none of the fighters attempts a DC 35 acrobatics check to jump 10 feet up to slice through the creature with a standard action. With 4 fighters attempting that action, one of them is bound to get through.
Um... is there some reason why these fighters can't use bows too, or that no one else has any ranged attacks?
Since Acrobatics isn't a class skill for fighters, and it's based on Dex, I'm thinking that's not a valid tactic. You don't succeed at skill checks on a nat 20. You have to meet or beat the DC.
I'm assuming that Darkness up there is gming the 20 flight speed creature and is trying to keep said creature from dying at the hands of 4 fighters. Assumption aside, yes, such a tactic could save the monster and kill the party, assuming none of the fighters attempts a DC 35 acrobatics check to jump 10 feet up to slice through the creature with a standard action. With 4 fighters attempting that action, one of them is bound to get through.Um... is there some reason why these fighters can't use bows too, or that no one else has any ranged attacks?
Only suggested the tactic of using the swords since the OP didn't state whether or not the fighters have a ranged weapon of their own.
Since Acrobatics isn't a class skill for fighters, and it's based on Dex, I'm thinking that's not a valid tactic. You don't succeed at skill checks on a nat 20. You have to meet or beat the DC.
In Pathfinder, you can still take ranks in a skill that's not a class skill, you just wouldn't get the +3 bonus to the skill for it being a class skill. I made the note of the acrobatics check because you can high take a running jump to hit the flier anyway as a move action, and still have a standard action to hit the flying character. Under the acrobatics skill it states that the DC to jump 4 feet up is a DC 16 skill check, with an additional +4 to the DC per feet beyond 4 feet. So to jump 5 feet up to be with range of the flying creature would be a DC 20 acrobatics check.
Assuming a dexterity of 16 for a +3 dex modifier, and four ranks in Acrobatics, you have a +7 to acrobatics checks. If you take a character trait like Reckless which give you a +1 trait bonus to acrobatics and allows you to make acrobatics a trait skill, your acrobatics check increases to a +11. Now you only need to hit a 9 on your acrobatics roll to get within range of the flying creature 10 feet above you.
Assuming 16 Dex and a trait isn't really something you should be doing for a party of Greatsword wielding (and therefore Str based) Fighters.
You also forgot to take into account Armor Check Penalty (It's mitigated, but not eliminated by Armor Training), and the fact that they still only have a little over a 50/50 shot of making it with your assumptions.
And that said Flying guy could just fly up even further next round.
Acrobatics to take down flying dudes isn't feasible.
Assuming 16 Dex and a trait isn't really something you should be doing for a party of Greatsword wielding (and therefore Str based) Fighters.
You also forgot to take into account Armor Check Penalty (It's mitigated, but not eliminated by Armor Training), and the fact that they still only have a little over a 50/50 shot of making it with your assumptions.
And that said Flying guy could just fly up even further next round.
Acrobatics to take down flying dudes isn't feasible.
*shrugs* No worries, I was just making a suggestion as to how the OP could end up having the 4 fighters hitting the flier on the first round that said flier went straight up. My suggestions are only for how the flier could be hit without ranged weapons, not the feasibility of the aforementioned tactic. That said, I was once a fighter in this exact situation because at the time I was only a 3rd level fighter, and it was a winged gnome who'd disarmed me of my bow and taken it for himself (read as a gnome flying rogue with real wings, the GM had built that gnome to disarm as a standard without an AoO and to fly straight up to evade someone trying to get their weapon back.
Since I didn't have my ranged weapon anymore, and the fighter was pissed about the loss of his bow, all I could do was jump and try to kill the gnome. Ended up with the half-elf rogue shooting his own hand-crossbow and sneak attacking the gnome to get my bow back, good times..
Potions of fly. Characters should have them.
This was just hypothetical, my party has ranged ability (magic, bows and the like.) This was specifically asked for running the encounter with the Quasit demon in The Catacombs of Wrath in the early portion of Rise of the Runelords. She has a fly speed of 50ft (perfect) and a wand of magic missiles. What I'm wondering is if she can just fly to the ceiling of the room and fly around out of melee range shooting magic missiles at everyone while they fire ranged attacks at her. It seems plausible, I just couldn't find any clear-cut flight rules in combat.
Oh oh oh! Yes, the quasit demon CAN fly straight up, with a perfect maneuverability! Normally you'd have to have the Hover feat in order to hover/fly straight up, but with perfect maneuverability you can hover/fly straight up without a flight check without needing the Hover feat! As to the Magic Missiles (love getting hit by them, even without a shield it's one of those moments where my arrogant character thinks he can't be hit then BAM! Magic missile to the FACE!), yeah that'd be a valid tactic, though I don't know if perfect maneuverability would allow the quasit demon to fly straight up as a move action or not. Otherwise, if the demon has fly-by attack maybe he/she could move, shoot the magic missiles, them continue moving again? I haven't used the fly-by attack feat OR spring attack feats in a long time, so I don't know if the fly-by attack allows for only melee attacks, or for any type of attack during the movement.
Daniel Turner Zen Archer, Pathfinder removed the rules regarding perfect maneuverability being able to hover and fly straight up. While those statements were true in 3.5 it is no longer true. In Pathfinder maneuverability ratings are just to define what your fly bonus is, nothing more.
So, a creature with Clumsy, Perfect, or any maneuverability rating in between needs to spend double movement to go up at a 45 degree angle (or greater). If rising at greater than a 45 degree angle (ie: straight up) there is also a DC20 fly check required.
- Gauss
Thanks for the clarifications :)
