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Ok, I know there are 3 slot wayfinders, however I'd like a just plain old boring 3 slot one. Is there one, that won't cost $100k? I like the synergy bonuses, not necessarily the side spells cast on them. Is there one available that doesn't make me pay $80k for some spell that I couldn't care less about?
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Best I can suggest is hope that the new Pathfinder Society Primer may have something up your alley, Eric. Although as Andrew has alluded to, I imagine a 3 slot wayfinder, even with no additional SIAC added, is going to be a pricy venture.
Yeah, I figured that, I just hate getting night vision when I'm an Aasimar because that's the cheapest 2 slot wayfinder available. I don't mind paying 50k or 60k for a 3 slot wayfinder, I just hate paying for useless spells that I'd never purchase.
Redward,
I think what Eric is getting at is at least a portion of the price is determined by the magical abiilties/spells attached to the Wayfinder.
So he would rather have a mundane Wayfinder with 3 slots, and hopefully it would be less money as there isn't an option of spells on the item.
Unfortunately though, those just don't exist.
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I agree redward and a wayfinder with 3 lvl. 1 garbage spells would be perfect, it would make it cheap enough to buy and not waste gp on powerful enchantments. Then you just swap out the garbage spells for decent Ioun stone benefits.
EDIT: Hobbun got it right, but if I have to, then give me 3x lvl. 1 garbage spells. So at least I'm not paying for expensive spells.
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Other than the clear spindle for prot. from evil, whats the cheese in the resonance?
The Dusty Rose, already a popular choice, gives +2 CMB and CMD. Incandescent Blue gives Blind-Fight, which is useful for meeting pre-reqs (and just a nice feat). Likewise which the Opalescent White's Weapon Focus. The various save bonuses aren't bad. And, if you're picking up any of the absorption stones, you basically need a wayfinder to make them work.
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If such a Wayfinder existed, nobody would pay for the other ones. There would be no reason to, since you lose all other magical abilities. People would choose the cheaper, non-descript one every time. The reason the ones we have exist is to keep the price exorbitant and deter everyone from walking around with the same item.
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Other than the clear spindle for prot. from evil, whats the cheese in the resonance?
I was going to gloss over this but that isn't fair I suppose. When I first started playing/GM'ing society play one of the things that we often talked about was the fact that in Society play you had to make choices. You couldn't have everything. There just wasn't enough gold, fame, levels, or just time so you had to select what you wanted most. A wayfinder that allows your character to get three resonance powers as well as the normal powers for ioun stones involved for less gold feels like trying to have everything. While this would not overpower the game (probably) and as such is not really cheesy it does give that feel of pushing for just one more cookie from the jar.
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Other than the clear spindle for prot. from evil, whats the cheese in the resonance?I was going to gloss over this but that isn't fair I suppose. When I first started playing/GM'ing society play one of the things that we often talked about was the fact that in Society play you had to make choices. You couldn't have everything. There just wasn't enough gold, fame, levels, or just time so you had to select what you wanted most. A wayfinder that allows your character to get three resonance powers as well as the normal powers for ioun stones involved for less gold feels like trying to have everything. While this would not overpower the game (probably) and as such is not really cheesy it does give that feel of pushing for just one more cookie from the jar.
Or to look at it another way, if people want to buy a simple factory car why should they be forced to pay double for extras they will never use?
It's like forcing wizards to buy armor with their int-items.
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Thank You Furious, hadn't thought of making the point that way, my imagination dried up for the day. :)
I'll add a couple more examples, to bring home the point. :D
So from now on, the only way you can buy a magic sword is to have it enchanted with the read magic spell.
And the only way to buy a wand is to have a magical spear attached to it.
Seems logical if you really don't think about it.
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Or to look at it another way, if people want to buy a simple factory car why should they be forced to pay double for extras they will never use?
It's like forcing wizards to buy armor with their int-items.
Just a bemused counterpoint: Slotting ioun stones in a wayfinder is like purchasing a car, removing its wheels, and making a tire swing. Making a great swing is just a byproduct of what the car is and can do. Understandably, the price difference between a unicycle (one slot) and a car (four slots) is considerable.
Also, the high price for multiple slots is a balancing factor for wayfinders. You can't have multiple wayfinders going at once, just like you shouldn't drive a car while riding a unicycle.
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Or to look at it another way, if people want to buy a simple factory car why should they be forced to pay double for extras they will never use?
It's like forcing wizards to buy armor with their int-items.
Just a bemused counterpoint: Slotting ioun stones in a wayfinder is like purchasing a car, removing its wheels, and making a tire swing. Making a great swing is just a byproduct of what the car is and can do. Understandably, the price difference between a unicycle (one slot) and a car (four slots) is considerable.
Also, the high price for multiple slots is a balancing factor for wayfinders. You can't have multiple wayfinders going at once, just like you shouldn't drive a car while riding a unicycle.
Touche. :D
Allow me to riposte with a different point of view.
My father bought a V6 Accord, I bought a V4, he wanted the extra horsepower for his long commute to work. He paid more than I did.
We both live in Southern California. In 100 degree weather his leather seats burns the skin, when you sit down (he had to get covers for his seats) and he will never use his sun roof (because because that will burn his scalp) and heated seats are a feature he'll never need (when the coldest day of the year is 60 degrees) its what we call deep winter, around here. All he wanted was a V6 and got stuck paying for a bunch of stuff that actually makes him enjoy his car, a lot less than I do mine.
In regards to my 3 slot wayfinder inquiry, I just want the frame, some doors, 4 wheels and the V6. I really don't want to pay for the sunroof or the leather and heated seats. And since I'm on a budget I never will.
Having said that, its not an issue for me, game wise. My original question was whether or not I could buy a stripped down V6 model and it seems that everyone has said that such a thing is not available or not possible.
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Continuing the car analogy, because why not...
Think of the three ioun stone slots as the radio, the power steering, and the anti-lock brakes system. They're things that are nice to have on a car, but they're not what the car is designed primarily to do. You can have a fully functional car with no radio, with non-power steering, and regular old brakes.
The spell-like abilities are the electrical system, front and rear axles, and brakes. Putting a radio in a powerless car, power steering on a car without anything holding the wheels on, or anti-lock on nonexistent brakes wouldn't do anything. Without the magical enhancements built into a wayfinder, there isn't the "circuitry" within the device to channel the ioun stone's power and activate the resonant power.
The design philosophy behind wayfinders, and the way they've been designed since day one, was that the ioun stone slots were the bells and whistles; the light spell-like ability was the engine. Higher-level spells may be larger engines, but they also don't often offer heated seats (ioun stone slots) in economy vehicles that only have 4-bangers.
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Or to look at it another way, if people want to buy a simple factory car why should they be forced to pay double for extras they will never use?
It's like forcing wizards to buy armor with their int-items.
Or to look at it another way, why should feats have prerequisites that I'm never going to use?
I'm building a Deadly Stroke character right now. Sure Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus will come in handy, and Shatter Defenses might be nice, but I'm never planning on using Dazzling Display. And forget about that 11 BAB requirement, I want to start using it at level 3!
Other than the clear spindle for prot. from evil, whats the cheese in the resonance?
None really, or at least none that I can think of. Nor is it asking for something for free like Andrew said the OP was asking for.
No, there isn't an item that gives you ridiculous power without paying the cost for it.
And no one was asking for that. Don't be a jerk.
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You could always just buy three wayfinders, and keep two in your handy haversack. Then if you need a specific one, drop the one you have, and pull out the next one and use it. At least I don't see anywhere that they have to be attuned for any period of time.
I play a ranged fighter who does a lot of damage for my level, the protection from mind control is always a must for me, otherwise my party members are going to be tearing up their PC sheets in front of me. So this option isn't available to me, if I want to play a cooperative game.
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** spoiler omitted **My fighter got himself a wand of Protection from Evil for precisely that kind of thing. And sure enough, I used it for that very encounter. :P
And wands can be used to break people ALREADY under control. It's useful in quite a few session to be able to break NPCs out of a dominate.
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No, there isn't an item that gives you ridiculous power without paying the cost for it.And no one was asking for that. Don't be a jerk.
Actually...yes, yes Eric was. Going, well I want this item that does this but don't ACTUALLY want to pay the FULL price for it is pretty much what Andrew said.
And screw the car analogy. It does NOT APPLY. The item cost what it does for GAME BALANCE. Asking for it to cost less for your benefit break GAME BALANCE. Making the item not do the spell per day or cheaper spells per day does not and SHOULD NOT reduce the cost. Remember that the first rule for pricing magic items is find something similar followed by cost it based on WHAT IT DOES. Removal or reducing the spells per day does SQUAT to reduce what the item would ACTUALLY do so there is no price discount.
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To the best of my knowledge a wand of Prot from Evil only gives you a re-roll, it doesn't cancel the spell. That means if the fighter with a Will +2 fails his re-roll, he's still going after you.
And your clear spindle won't do much to help you get that NPC to help you while dominated. What's worse, you may end up KILLING said NPC that you may want help otherwise. Even if you have a clear spindle, having a wand is still pretty dang useful. Or just get better at reading when you should get your prot evil up.
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Actually...yes, yes Eric was. Going, well I want this item that does this but don't ACTUALLY want to pay the FULL price for it is pretty much what Andrew said...
No, there isn't an item that gives you ridiculous power without paying the cost for it.And no one was asking for that. Don't be a jerk.
Actually, no, no I wasn't. I asked if there was a cheaper version of a 3 slot wayfinder. One that had 3 spells on it but not high level spells. Something like lvl 1 + lvl 1 + lvl 1.
A full price for a Wayfinder with 3 lvl. 1 spells rather than a Wayfinder with 3 lvl. 5 spells. Which is a very reasonable question in my opinion.
And Andrew's response was jerky. Rather than say, there was nothing cheaper, he decided to insult me, without provocation.
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To the best of my knowledge a wand of Prot from Evil only gives you a re-roll, it doesn't cancel the spell. That means if the fighter with a Will +2 fails his re-roll, he's still going after you.I told the party member I handed it to to use it on my "if he even suspected we're facing an evil spellcaster"; if you have it going before the mind control is cast, you're immune.
Also, a reroll is better than no reroll. Just keep poking him with the happy stick until he stops poking you with the hurty stick.
And with my high initiative and high to hit roll, I'm going to do 50-70 dmg to a lvl. 6-7 PC, per round.
This was an extremely well thought out encounter that the Paizo staff created and for that, I tip my hat off to them.
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Actually...yes, yes Eric was. Going, well I want this item that does this but don't ACTUALLY want to pay the FULL price for it is pretty much what Andrew said...
No, there isn't an item that gives you ridiculous power without paying the cost for it.And no one was asking for that. Don't be a jerk.Actually, no, no I wasn't. I asked if there was a cheaper version of a 3 slot wayfinder. One that had 3 spells on it but not high level spells. Something like lvl 1 + lvl 1 + lvl 1.
A full price for a Wayfinder with 3 lvl. 1 spells rather than a Wayfinder with 3 lvl. 5 spells. Which is a very reasonable question in my opinion.
And Andrew's response was jerky. Rather than say, there was nothing cheaper, he decided to insult me, without provocation.
And as Andrew's response along with the follow up responses made it QUITE clear that the cost of the item has pretty much NIL to do with the spell per day and yet, you persisted in an attempt to try and get a lower price. So while your question at FIRST may have been a reasonable question, your continued response proved his assumption about your question was correct.
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To the best of my knowledge a wand of Prot from Evil only gives you a re-roll, it doesn't cancel the spell. That means if the fighter with a Will +2 fails his re-roll, he's still going after you.I told the party member I handed it to to use it on my "if he even suspected we're facing an evil spellcaster"; if you have it going before the mind control is cast, you're immune.
Also, a reroll is better than no reroll. Just keep poking him with the happy stick until he stops poking you with the hurty stick.
** spoiler omitted **Spoiler EDITED
And with my high initiative and high to hit roll, I'm going to do 50-70 dmg to a lvl. 6-7 PC, per round.
This was an extremely well thought out encounter that the Paizo staff created and for that, I tip my hat off to them.
If you SEE a spellcaster, then your BEYOND suspecting one. The point is to get good at "reading" the scenario to have those buffs up at a good time.
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If someone would rather have 4 tire swings than your car, I'd say either Detroit messed up the car design big time or you are having WAY too much fun on a tire swing.
Hey, it's not JUST Detroit that made god awful cars you know. There are quite a few clunkers from Japan and even Germany. Oh and lets not forget Daiwoos and early Kias and Hyundais.
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And as Kyle said, it only protects from evil casters.
Also, if you've got a +3 or less to Will at level 5+, I'd be a lot less worried about Wayfinders and a lot more worried about upgrading cloaks and buying headbands. That is not a slight on your build. That is a warning that there are far worse Will saves to fail than Dominate person.
I understand why you want a cheaper version. But you also can't get a +1 longsword for 2015gp ("I don't need the masterwork quality, it already has +1 to hit!"). You can't get Improved Trip without Combat Expertise ("My Int 7 fighter wants to trip!"). Those speed bumps are there for balance purposes.
Even though the wayfinder, and its ioun stone slot is a "slotless" item, you normally only get one. For a similar example, look at the Pink Rhomboid (8000gp) and Onyx Rhomboid Ioun stones. Both grant a +2 Enhancement bonus to Constitution. One stacks, the other does not. Removing fundamental restrictions is never going to be cheap.