Okay, here's i need a walk through, step by step, on when and how I apply all of this because the rules as written make no sense to my literal mind.
BAB +16/11/6/1
Multiweapon fighting
Imrpoved Two Weapon Fighting
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Rapid Shot
Two Speed Weapons
i thought it would go like this...
BAB +16/11/6/1
MWF
Right Hand: +12/11/6/1
Left Hand: +12
ITWF
Right Hand: +12/6/6/1
Left Hand: +12/6
GTWF
Right Hand: +12/6/-4/1 (???)
Left Hand: +12/6/-4
Rapid Shot
Right Hand: +10/4/-6/-1 (???)
Left Hand: +10/4/-6
Either: +10
Speed
Right Hand: +10/+10/4/-6/-1 (???)
Left Hand: +10/+10/4/-6
Either: +10
Alternatively...
BAB +16/11/6/1
MWF
Right Hand: +16/7/6/1
Left Hand: +7/6/1
ITWF
Right Hand: +16/7/1/1
Left Hand: +7/1
GTWF
Right Hand: +16/7/1/-9
Left Hand: +7/1/-9
Rapid Shot
Right Hand: +12/3/-3/-13
Left Hand: +3/-3/-13
Either: +12
Speed
Right Hand: +12/12/3/-3/-13
Left Hand: +12/3/-3/-13
Either: +12
Last idea...
BAB +16/11/6/1
MWF
Right Hand:+12/8/4/0
Left Hand :+12
ITWF
Right Hand:+12/3/-2/-4
Left Hand :+12/3
GTWF
Right Hand:+12/3/-7/-9
Left Hand :+12/3/-7
Rapid Shot
Right Hand:+10/1/-9/-11
Left Hand :+10/1/-9
Either :+10
Speed
Right Hand:+10/10/1/-9/-11
Left Hand :+10/10/1/-9
Either :+10
Why are you using Multiweapon Fighting, does the character have 3+ hands?
Also, why are you using Rapid Shot? Are you going to throw your swords? Rapid shot is for ranged weapons.
Why are you using Multiweapon Fighting, does the character have 3+ hands?
I am playing a four armed kitsune Gunslinger-Alchemist (musket master-grenadier) dual wielding mithril culverins with alchemical cartridges... any questions?
Which reminds me, there's a -2 penalty for using a scatter weapon.
I would say:
Bab +16 will give you
right only +16/+11/+6/+1
right +10/+5/+0/-5
left +6
(assuming you use one-handed weapons, not light weapons)
(edit: or two-handed weapons in each of your left and right hands...)
with two-weapon-fighting
right +12/+7/+2/-3
left +12
with improved two-weapon-fighting
right +12/+7/+2/-3
left +12/+7
with greater two-weapon-fighting
right +12/+7/+2/-3
left +12/+7/+2
and (but I'm not sure about the current ruling) with speed weapons
right +12/+12/+7/+2/-3
left +12/+12/+7/+2
Alright, thank you... so...
all GTWF with Speed Weapons
right: +12/+12/+7/+2/-3
left: +12/+12/+7/+2
-2 to all for scatter & -2 to all for rapid shot...
right: +8/+8/+3/-2/-7
left: +8/+8/+3/-2
rapid: +8
So...
+8/+8/+8/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2/-2/-7
That should do quite nicely...
Now add +2 for point blank and focus...
+10/+10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+5/0/0/-5
Umm... last time I checked, multiple speed weapons were pretty much worthless, as only one of them will net you an extra attack at highest value.
Are your Culverin's braced?
If not, you're at -4 to hit, and prone after the first shot.
Also, Culverins are muzzle-loaded, and are considered Early rifearms (reloading is a Full round action). Your cartridges will bring that down to a Standard Action, Rapid reload to a Move (assuming your GM allows the stack). So as you can't reload as a free action, you can't use iterative attacks with them.
Unless I'm missing something.. The speed quality doesn't affect reload time, does it?
Oh, and it seems there's something just come up in the FAQ about not been able to use 2 Handed weapons when two weapon fighting, even with 4 hands.
Why don't you just use 4 Mithril revolvers?? Ouch!
Are your Culverin's braced?
If not, you're at -4 to hit, and prone after the first shot.Also, Culverins are muzzle-loaded, and are considered Early rifearms (reloading is a Full round action). Your cartridges will bring that down to a Standard Action, Rapid reload to a Move (assuming your GM allows the stack). So as you can't reload as a free action, you can't use iterative attacks with them.
Unless I'm missing something.. The speed quality doesn't affect reload time, does it?
Oh, and it seems there's something just come up in the FAQ about not been able to use 2 Handed weapons when two weapon fighting, even with 4 hands.
Why don't you just use 4 Mithril revolvers?? Ouch!
Fast Musket Class feature applies to all two-handed firearms, letting me reload them as if they were handguns, rapid reload takes it from a standard to a move, alchemical cartridge takes it to a free.
Also, typically i have my back to a wall and we're assuming the culverins are old style hand cannons with the wooden arm coming off the back.
GM's ruled that since speed says explicitly "When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it" that it stacks.
They seriously threw an arbitrary ban on dual wielding two handed weapons when you have four arms? Link plz?
I'm sure some people are wondering why the insane build... We're playing a game where nothing is less than 2 CR higher than the party, most are 4. First day we averaged 6 points of strength damage a piece. I'm also the party's primary damage dealer and, because our tank is a bloody coward who would rather stand in the back and use a wand of magic missile, I'm subbing for her.
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Fast Musket Class feature applies to all two-handed firearms, letting me reload them as if they were handguns, rapid reload takes it from a standard to a move, alchemical cartridge takes it to a free.
Also, typically i have my back to a wall and we're assuming the culverins are old style hand cannons with the wooden arm coming off the back.
GM's ruled that since speed says explicitly "When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it" that it stacks.
They seriously threw an arbitrary ban on dual wielding two handed weapons when you have four arms? Link plz?
Ka-Boom indeed!!!
As for the 2handed weapons in TWF, there's several threads mentioning it right now, I'll see if I can dig up a link.
I actually picked up the moniker after I broke out a Fiend's Mouth Cannon in the middle of a fight (wizard was kind enough to drop shrink item and Permanency on it), tossed in an Alchemical Siege Bomb, and took out half the opposing force... I lost the thing when I used it to sink a ship of the line we were ON, but it was a hilarious way to cap off level 11.
Come to think of it we never did determine what action it was to fire the thing. We just said swift because it was a full-round or move just to aim.
As someone else mentioned, FAQ someplace has stated multiple speed weapons dont stack. Outside of of ki point spent to gain an extra attack nothing else stacks with any other effects that give an extra attack as far as I know. You're GM is incorrect as far as the rules are concerned.
And yes, as other mentioned current interpretation of FAQ's would seem to imply that despite having four arms, you cannot wield two two-handed weapons, but I haven't seen that stated outright anywhere. It is however a probable conclusion based on the newest rulings.
I should never have picked up Shadowrun, I was spoiled by the freedom. Now everything just feels restrictive.
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Restrictions are good. Let the order of universal law reign over your soul.
Restrictions are good. Let the order of universal law reign over your soul.
I was born Chaotic Neutral and I'll die Chaotic Neutral.
I don't know, some of this feels like those video games where you can't wear a Hat until you've met the level requirement to do so. Feels arbitrary.
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Feels arbitrary.
Tis not arbitrary.
It is simply to stop you from going, "Wow look if I scour 14 books and fashion it all together in a manner never intended I win the game and all the spotlights are only for me because I am so awesome and the DM will have to set up encounters only for me."
If a character presented me that concept I would have it die in char gen until they came back with something reasonable.
Feels arbitrary.Tis not arbitrary.
It is simply to stop you from going, "Wow look if I scour 14 books and fashion it all together in a manner never intended I win the game and all the spotlights are only for me because I am so awesome and the DM will have to set up encounters only for me."
If a character presented me that concept I would have it die in char gen until they came back with something reasonable.
Few posts up. I explained why i'm bringing such an insane character to the party.
Also, if they don't like how their rules mesh then shouldn't they keep that in mind when they write them? I'm an alchemist with four arms, well i don't get bonuses to grapples, I can't dual wield two handed weapons. There's a good chance that I don't have a melee weapon if i'm a pure alchemist. All they do is hold things and let me pick from four different one handed weapons of which I really only need to to do anything. So this discovery is completely wasted. It offers no advantage, eats two Discoveries, and can only truly be justified if you take a third Discovery (Parasitic Twin) and a Feat (Die for your master) which isn't worth the effort.
Besides, What fun is there in yet another 8th level fighter? or the wizard hitting level 9, he has Cloudkill and Grease, unless the GM starts throwing constructs we're just here to carry his loot. Ranger shoots everything twice AGAIN. Or the most boring of boring classes, the vanilla paladin. Whole reason I picked up Gunslingers and Alchemist is the wide array of different ways to play each. They are larger than life characters (it's even a trait) that break the boredom. Besides, if the GM wanted to get rid of me all that would take is anything with a high dex and combat reflexes. I provoke shooting and reloading.
Also, if they don't like how their rules mesh then shouldn't they keep that in mind when they write them?
In the immortal words of a very cuddly bear:
"In your hands is a framework for imagination, permitting you to take part in fantastic adventures, not a step-by-step manual explaining every situation conceivable in excruciating detail and closing all possible loopholes."As an aside, it matters not how one plays the game, as long as everyone is having fun when they play, and you do not appear to be having fun. Text is a horrible medium for tone, but it appears that you are not overly fond of the Pathfinder RPG. Perhaps the way to rectify it is to wend your way back to 2072 and use bleeding-edge science/magic, as a corporate pawn, to hopefully survive another 'run on the mean sprawl streets.
p.s. If you are seeking a mechanic for advantageous play for a 4-armed character I would direct you to perform: pattycake and perform: waving/doing the wave. You sir, are the apotheosis of waving : )
My lack of fun is stemming mostly from reading the rules, thinking something is legal, then finding out that Paizo changed that on me with either an explicit or general ruling made in an FAQ no one told me about.
My lack of fun is stemming mostly from reading the rules, thinking something is legal, then finding out that Paizo changed that on me with either an explicit or general ruling made in an FAQ no one told me about.
As you traipsed through many pages, in many books, to find loopholes that permitted you to bypass anything that stood in your way of being a medieval chain gun, it would seem incumbent upon you to wend your way over to the FAQ and see if the aforesaid loopholes had been closed.
Generally if you're destroying everything you meet, and outshining everyone on your team, you realize that perhaps that was not how the game was intended to be played without the need for a FAQ.
Just my 2.7 cp.
<wonders how he accidentally clicked on a Rules Question in the first place, since he's from the "just houserule it and have fun" camp>
I have done neither of those actually... partially because I'm having to sub for the chicken tank and we have a damn good wizard.
And I hate house ruling games. It makes me feel like the game is broken and I'm left having to fix what the developers couldn't be bothered to, so i huge the rules hard.