Might as well make something nice to look at if I'm gonna spend that many hours looking at her.Never mattered much to me...in fact, when the game allows me to design my own character, I usually make a chick.Same more often than not
It's less that for me and more I just tend to prefer female characters/player avatars. It's even true in things like Pokemon and other games where the graphics aren't adequate for eye candy.
It's less that for me and more I just tend to prefer female characters/player avatars. It's even true in things like Pokemon and other games where the graphics aren't adequate for eye candy.Might as well make something nice to look at if I'm gonna spend that many hours looking at her.Never mattered much to me...in fact, when the game allows me to design my own character, I usually make a chick.Same more often than not
You have obviously never seen a sprite based h-game.
You have obviously never seen a sprite based h-game.It's less that for me and more I just tend to prefer female characters/player avatars. It's even true in things like Pokemon and other games where the graphics aren't adequate for eye candy.Might as well make something nice to look at if I'm gonna spend that many hours looking at her.Never mattered much to me...in fact, when the game allows me to design my own character, I usually make a chick.Same more often than not
I'm going to say no because I don't know what that means but the context tells me I don't want to.
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this is one of those moments where I start to type something into google to look it up and then think better of it
I remember reading about the Marketing team for Last of Us not having Ellie on the cover. It was just the guy. The development team had to fight them on it to put her on the cover because she's so important to the story.
Don't know if it was because she was a girl, a kid, or both but I'm glad the developers got what they wanted.
See also Bioshock Infinite. The cover features only Booker DeWitt, even though the main character that really drives the whole story is Elizabeth (despite her not being the player character), she got pushed to the backside "because marketing!"
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See also Bioshock Infinite. The cover features only Booker DeWitt, even though the main character that really drives the whole story is Elizabeth (despite her not being the player character), she got pushed to the backside "because marketing!"I remember reading about the Marketing team for Last of Us not having Ellie on the cover. It was just the guy. The development team had to fight them on it to put her on the cover because she's so important to the story.
Don't know if it was because she was a girl, a kid, or both but I'm glad the developers got what they wanted.
This makes me sad. I never even noticed this kind of stuff, sadly enough, until I had a daughter. Now all of it just kind of rubs me wrong. She likes games! (she's only 10 so she won't be playing any of the M rated games anyway like Last of Us and Bioshock)
There was a DS game that we never picked up but she talks about wanting to play as Peach who goes and rescues Mario for a change and ESPECIALLY as Zelda helping Link and not the other way. It makes me sad T_T
There was a DS game that we never picked up but she talks about wanting to play as Peach who goes and rescues Mario for a change
Super Princess Peach. Fun game, not exactly challenging, though the emotion-based power system did rankle some people.
There was/is a picture floating around Tumblr and Imgur of a Zelda game featuring a playable Zelda, a Prince Link, and some interesting ideas for something of that kind. It's fanmade, but was very authentic looking and had me fooled at first.
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Never controlled by the player, though.
And this is the problem, sadly. She still plays them as Link. She has all the Legend of Zelda Mangas because she loves the world and the characters but oh well. So I'll load up Smash Brawl and play through the Story sometime with her and let her be Zelda there ^_^
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I don't think the problem is a female protagonist per se, but more that the mega-selling game franchises haven't taken a proper chance with a female protagonist.It's similar to the problem in the comic book industry. There have been several titles with strong female protagonists that would pass the Bechdel test with ease. Power Girl, the non_John Byrne version of She-Hulk, Birds of Prey,... they don't sell well.
Female supporting characters are fine. But most of the overwhelmingly male customers don't want to be made to identify with a female persona.
First, I don't know about the others, IIRC volume 1 of Birds of Prey generally had consistently good sales, normally in the top 100 if not 50 or higher.
Secondly, perhaps the customers wouldn't be "overwhelmingly male" if there was more inclusivity in both the design AND marketing. Why target one audience when you can target several and thus get more sales?
Thirdly, the "overwhelmingly male" population of video game players is 55%, according to the Electronic Software Association. Majority, yes; actually overwhelming, no.
And if anyone says "but the girls're all playing Facebook games, that doesn't count," I WILL scream and hurt things (and no, they're not, and that is both irrationally and ignorantly dismissive of both the women who play and purchase non-browser games (for example look at this article that notes many women are drawn to action adventure games and MMOs) and the MEN who like to play browser games (I think browser gaming is probably pretty widespread amongst the genders and mainstream). Google (or duckduckgo for no filtering) "what kind of video games do girls play" for some interesting answers. Otherwise, if that's seriously what you think, back it up with proof).
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And if anyone says "but the girls're all playing Facebook games, that doesn't count," I WILL scream and hurt things (and no, they're not, and that is both irrationally and ignorantly dismissive of both the women who play and purchase non-browser games (for example look at this article that notes many women are drawn to action adventure games and MMOs) and the MEN who like to play browser games (I think browser gaming is probably pretty widespread amongst the genders and mainstream). Google (or duckduckgo for no filtering) "what kind of video games do girls play" for some interesting answers. Otherwise, if that's seriously what you think, back it up with proof).
Much of that is due to the growing popularity of social and mobile games like “Angry Birds,” “Farmville,” “Minecraft” and “Candy Crush” — addictive casual games that can be played on smartphones or tablets and don’t require a heavy commitment of tens of hours to play. More than half of all social and mobile gamers are women, according to industry research firm EEDAR, but surprisingly as many as 30% of women play more violent games like “Halo,” the group found. “Call of Duty” counts around 20% femme players, while “Grand Theft Auto” is around 15% for the whole franchise, their creators say.
Looks like.. yes, women play more mobile and social games, but are a minority for Halo, COD and Grand Theft Auto.
And if anyone says "but the girls're all playing Facebook games, that doesn't count," I WILL scream and hurt things (and no, they're not, and that is both irrationally and ignorantly dismissive of both the women who play and purchase non-browser games (for example look at this article that notes many women are drawn to action adventure games and MMOs) and the MEN who like to play browser games (I think browser gaming is probably pretty widespread amongst the genders and mainstream). Google (or duckduckgo for no filtering) "what kind of video games do girls play" for some interesting answers. Otherwise, if that's seriously what you think, back it up with proof).Much of that is due to the growing popularity of social and mobile games like “Angry Birds,” “Farmville,” “Minecraft” and “Candy Crush” — addictive casual games that can be played on smartphones or tablets and don’t require a heavy commitment of tens of hours to play. More than half of all social and mobile gamers are women, according to industry research firm EEDAR, but surprisingly as many as 30% of women play more violent games like “Halo,” the group found. “Call of Duty” counts around 20% femme players, while “Grand Theft Auto” is around 15% for the whole franchise, their creators say.
Looks like.. yes, women play more mobile and social games, but are a minority for Halo, COD and Grand Theft Auto.
The argument I am preemptively reacting to is the one that suggests ALL of the 45% of gamers who are women are browser gamers ONLY. I did say "all" in my original post, but I should have made that clearer. What's gotten up my nose is the dismissive attitude that I often see on gamer boards that NONE of those women gamers could possibly have been playing something else. It is a position often used to SILENCE women gamers who speak up, telling them they don't exist and that their opinion therefore means nothing, and it is excruciatingly frustrating.
Your are article and statistics prove in fact that not all women gamers play only browser games, so thank you for that, as it helps move away from that mistaken but often touted assumption that no women ever play PC or console games. (Thanks also, just for bothering to look up the research.)
I note that it also calls out three of what we could probably agree are the most hypermasculinized games on the market, so the fact that women play them at all -- and one-third of Call of Duty Players, which is a significant minority, are women is especially notable -- is actually pretty enlightening given the usual gamer attitude that no women ever would ever play such a game. (It actually honestly surprises me that as many as 15% of gamers who play GTA are women as that game has been often criticized for particularly misogynist themes. Note: do not mistake this for an argument that the game is misogynist. I in fact have never played it so I don't know. I'm just noting it's gotten press in that light and that press may have driven away potential female players.)
These also aren't the only console or PC games out there. They're closely related in genre as well.
I'd hazard a guess that players of action adventure games, RPGs, and strategy/sim games are higher in the number of women who play them. This here notes, for example, as of 2008 about 40% of WoW players are women, for example (and I've heard it's gotten up to 50% but I can't remember where I saw that, unfortunately). Hopefully can dig up some other stats later.
There is a bad tendency to silence women gamers or assume they don't "count." Yes, they are in a minority. But 30, 40, 45% are a far cry from "none," which is often the assumption, and a far cry from "underwhelming." And this is a minority that is growing in spite of an industry that insists it doesn't exist at all. Imagine what would happen if this audience was actively marketed to rather than ignored? Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to think sales overall across the board would in fact increase. It does seem that at least some software devs and publishers are starting to think that way, as evidenced by CoD's devs adding female player avatars to the game--they obviously think it's important to acknowledge that third of their audience.
I'd also note you're less likely to be harassed if you say you're a browser gamer, or told you don't exist or that you don't count. That probably helps boost up those numbers too. It's always nice when people acknowledge your existence.
And it's also notable that okay, 50%+ of women are mobile/browser gamers. But that means a large minority of men are also mobile/browser gamers. Do we say they don't count? Do we say they're not really gamers too?
Thanks for your post.
From a tabletop perspective, run a lot of stuff with new players and when I hand around the PFS pregens, I still get "ugh, so-and-so class is a girl? That's annoying" plenty. I also notice that the pregens with females tend to get played less, regardless of class.
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I don't have time right now to fully reply to your well thought out post, DeathQuaker, but I would say that, in regards to this..
And it's also notable that okay, 50%+ of women are mobile/browser gamers. But that means a large minority of men are also mobile/browser gamers. Do we say they don't count? Do we say they're not really gamers too?
That I do think there's a lack of accurate terminology here, to be honest. There is a difference between someone who only plays fruit ninja or whatever on a mobile when they're commuting to work and someone who's about to spend close to £1000 on both new consoles next month. That's not to say that the mobile gamer isn't a 'real' gamer, or whatever silly term gets thrown about, but certainly one is a more dedicated gamer. To use a comparison, I wouldn't call someone who goes to one or two movies a year a 'film buff'.
It's similar to the problem in the comic book industry. There have been several titles with strong female protagonists that would pass the Bechdel test with ease. Power Girl, the non_John Byrne version of She-Hulk, Birds of Prey,... they don't sell well.
Female supporting characters are fine. But most of the overwhelmingly male customers don't want to be made to identify with a female persona.
That isn't what I was saying. What I was saying was that major game companies don't take chances with female protagonists, ergo there are few big-selling game franchises with female protagonists; it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Howevere, there are enough (METROID, PORTAL, TOMB RAIDER) to put the lie to the suggestion that gamers as a whole don't like female protagonists in games.
In fact, the number of female gamers out there is huge and growing. A third of CoD's players being women is frankly astonishing given its ludicrously macho ethos (it also explains why they're putting female soldier models and characters into GHOSTS, though with a lot less fanfare than the dog).
If you look at RPGs, I'd be surprised if the percentages of female gamers were not significantly higher.
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It's similar to the problem in the comic book industry. There have been several titles with strong female protagonists that would pass the Bechdel test with ease. Power Girl, the non_John Byrne version of She-Hulk, Birds of Prey,... they don't sell well.
Female supporting characters are fine. But most of the overwhelmingly male customers don't want to be made to identify with a female persona.
That isn't what I was saying. What I was saying was that major game companies don't take chances with female protagonists, ergo there are few big-selling game franchises with female protagonists; it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Howevere, there are enough (METROID, PORTAL, TOMB RAIDER) to put the lie to the suggestion that gamers as a whole don't like female protagonists in games.
In fact, the number of female gamers out there is huge and growing. A third of CoD's players being women is frankly astonishing given its ludicrously macho ethos (it also explains why they're putting female soldier models and characters into GHOSTS, though with a lot less fanfare than the dog).
If you look at RPGs, I'd be surprised if the percentages of female gamers were not significantly higher.
20% for CoD, not 1/3rd.
I'm not sure if there's actual figures for RPG player numbers, but as a point of interest, 18% of players of ME3 picked Female Shepard. Not sure if that means anything really, but it's an interesting figure.
It's similar to the problem in the comic book industry. There have been several titles with strong female protagonists that would pass the Bechdel test with ease. Power Girl, the non_John Byrne version of She-Hulk, Birds of Prey,... they don't sell well.
Female supporting characters are fine. But most of the overwhelmingly male customers don't want to be made to identify with a female persona.
That isn't what I was saying. What I was saying was that major game companies don't take chances with female protagonists, ergo there are few big-selling game franchises with female protagonists; it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Howevere, there are enough (METROID, PORTAL, TOMB RAIDER) to put the lie to the suggestion that gamers as a whole don't like female protagonists in games.
In fact, the number of female gamers out there is huge and growing. A third of CoD's players being women is frankly astonishing given its ludicrously macho ethos (it also explains why they're putting female soldier models and characters into GHOSTS, though with a lot less fanfare than the dog).
If you look at RPGs, I'd be surprised if the percentages of female gamers were not significantly higher.
20% for CoD, not 1/3rd.
I'm not sure if there's actual figures for RPG player numbers, but as a point of interest, 18% of players of ME3 picked Female Shepard. Not sure if that means anything really, but it's an interesting figure.
I find that statisic funny because I do not know anyone who on their first play through chose male shep. Every single person I know who has played the game prefers fem shep.
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Fem shep forever.
Seriously, though... I must have been the only person who actually rather liked the original ME3 endings. The point is, they did NOT spell it ALL out for you. They left a lot of questions, which is okay. They put you to making a stark choice, and even getting to the end came with a heavy price. Agreed on missing options, and on some logical weirdness. That doesn't mean they were as bad as people describe them, though. And forgive me for saying so: They were not just red, green or blue versions.
See also Bioshock Infinite. The cover features only Booker DeWitt, even though the main character that really drives the whole story is Elizabeth (despite her not being the player character), she got pushed to the backside "because marketing!"I remember reading about the Marketing team for Last of Us not having Ellie on the cover. It was just the guy. The development team had to fight them on it to put her on the cover because she's so important to the story.
Don't know if it was because she was a girl, a kid, or both but I'm glad the developers got what they wanted.
Do you have a source for that, or are you making an assumption?
As for me, I own scores of video games, new and old, but my favorite game ever is still Silent Hill 3. The protagonist? Heather Mason. Yes, a girl.
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See also Bioshock Infinite. The cover features only Booker DeWitt, even though the main character that really drives the whole story is Elizabeth (despite her not being the player character), she got pushed to the backside "because marketing!"I remember reading about the Marketing team for Last of Us not having Ellie on the cover. It was just the guy. The development team had to fight them on it to put her on the cover because she's so important to the story.
Don't know if it was because she was a girl, a kid, or both but I'm glad the developers got what they wanted.
Do you have a source for that, or are you making an assumption?
As for me, I own scores of video games, new and old, but my favorite game ever is still Silent Hill 3. The protagonist? Heather Mason. Yes, a girl.
It's very depressing.
MetroidThe recent one sold a whole half a million copies in NA, which was well below expectations.
That game may have destroyed the franchise. People like her as a strong character. The "reasoning" for unlocking her powers was really bad.
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And this is the problem, sadly. She still plays them as Link. She has all the Legend of Zelda Mangas because she loves the world and the characters but oh well. So I'll load up Smash Brawl and play through the Story sometime with her and let her be Zelda there ^_^
Never controlled by the player, though.
There were two non-canon CD-i games where the player controlled Zelda.
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Other M should have just done the same thing they've done in half of the Metroid games...ignored the fact that she should have already had all the upgrades already and had her "discover" them as she progressed through the station. Worked for Metroid II, Super Metroid, and Metroid Prime. Prime 2, Prime 3, and Fusion, IIRC, have something happen at the very beginning to explain why she doesn't have her previous power-ups.
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There were two non-canon CD-i games where the player controlled Zelda.And this is the problem, sadly. She still plays them as Link. She has all the Legend of Zelda Mangas because she loves the world and the characters but oh well. So I'll load up Smash Brawl and play through the Story sometime with her and let her be Zelda there ^_^
Never controlled by the player, though.
Surely we can have Zelda be the playable lead in a good game though. ;)
So...that Beyond Good and Evil sequel is still incoming, right? Here's hoping...
(was pleasantly surprised to find out Mirror's Edge 2 is happening)
find that statisic funny because I do not know anyone who on their first play through chose male shep. Every single person I know who has played the game prefers fem shep.
I played both! More femSheps than maleSheps though.
But I actually preferred maleShep. I know this is border-line heresy, but I liked his voice acting better. The dialogue seemed to flow more naturally.
*now goes to hide*
find that statisic funny because I do not know anyone who on their first play through chose male shep. Every single person I know who has played the game prefers fem shep.I played both! More femSheps than maleSheps though.
But I actually preferred maleShep. I know this is border-line heresy, but I liked his voice acting better. The dialogue seemed to flow more naturally.
*now goes to hide*
Boo! Hisssss! =)
And this is the problem, sadly. She still plays them as Link. She has all the Legend of Zelda Mangas because she loves the world and the characters but oh well. So I'll load up Smash Brawl and play through the Story sometime with her and let her be Zelda there ^_^
Never controlled by the player, though.
There is an old zelda game in which zelda is the player character and saves link.
But unfortunately it ranks not only among the worst Zelda franchise games, but the worst games in general. It was one of the infamous Zelda CDI games.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Boo! Hisssss! =)
To balance the scales, I do play the Asari Huntress almost exclusively, in multiplayer. Though that might have less to do with her being female and more to do with the ability to one-shot Banshees from stealth. :p
Boo! Hisssss! =)find that statisic funny because I do not know anyone who on their first play through chose male shep. Every single person I know who has played the game prefers fem shep.I played both! More femSheps than maleSheps though.
But I actually preferred maleShep. I know this is border-line heresy, but I liked his voice acting better. The dialogue seemed to flow more naturally.
*now goes to hide*
No! Bad Sissyl. Bad.
You liked the ME3 ending. You're not allowed to boo at him. The heretic priest should not hiss at the heretic.
Mass Effect 3's ending could certainly have used a focus group.Then again, Mass Effect 3's ending could have done with being run past an eight year old and asking them to point out all the logical inconsistencies and flaws.
If I remember correctly, those endings didn' even get run past most of the writing team. It was like one writer and one editor did it, and instead of bringing it to the group for disscussion as every other part of the game had, they just sent it to the animation studio. Someone had the sources and everything back in the ME3 thread, if anyone cars to dig it up.