So I'm considering getting into Society Play, and was looking for something different. From what I've read so far, Beast-bonded archetype for Witch seems PFS legal. Though this issue wouldn't even come up until very late in the characters career (level 10), I was wondering if I understood how the rules interact in this situation:
With twin soul, I can move into my familiars body when I am "gravely injured". I could persist in this form indefinatly, but could "return to my[its] own body (if available) by touch".
So by my understanding, I can leave my body and merge with my familiar, go have an adventure, then come home and jump back into my body? That would avoid the whole "spells and effects of permanent duration" issue, and also not cost me in having to resurect myself.
Tried searching the forums on this, but didn't find anything. If this has already been discussed/resolved, just point me there please?
I think for a witch loosing the familiar could be worse than dying...
I think for a witch loosing the familiar could be worse than dying...
From a roleplaying perspective, I can see BNW's point. Trying to leverage the "swap souls" to avoid resurrection/raise costs not only smacks of fromage, but I can't imagine a witch using their familiar that way. I know my witch would never do that to her familiar and goes out of her way to protect it- not use it as a soul-shield.
I was more of wondering about the rules when I made the post, not so much about it being safe, effective, or what Jack would do. Besides, if I died in the familiar, I'm pretty sure I'd be dead too.
Anybody know if my origional post is kosher by PFS rules?
It seems ok but this archetype seems to need a bit of work in the writing department to be perfectly clear. Your 8th level ability probably won't work since you will likely have an improved familiar at that time and can't beastshape into its type. Also when you return from your familiar to your dead body it doesn't give any mention of bringing any HP with you. Do you have to get a Breath of Life ready for when your soul goes back to it? Could getting someone to cast heal (doesn't have the living creature requirement that cures have) on your dead body before you return to it do the trick?
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It seems ok but this archetype seems to need a bit of work in the writing department to be perfectly clear. Your 8th level ability probably won't work since you will likely have an improved familiar at that time and can't beastshape into its type. Also when you return from your familiar to your dead body it doesn't give any mention of bringing any HP with you. Do you have to get a Breath of Life ready for when your soul goes back to it? Could getting someone to cast heal (doesn't have the living creature requirement that cures have) on your dead body before you return to it do the trick?
Nothing in the rules says that you're body died, just that it needs to be gravely injured to initiate the change. Beat yourself down to whatever point is considered gravely injured (-1 should do it) and jump into your familiar and cast a few heals to bring you positive and leave the healthy but empty body at the lodge under guard. THEN you go on the adventure.
As for risking the familiar being a bad thing for a witch remember the body swap thing works both ways. If your familiar gets killed in battle it (and you) are immediately shipped back to the lodge where your body is and you BOTH sit in that healthy body. From there you can recover (or steal a new one) the familiars body and continue the adventure.
This is TRUE immortality, you can never die as long as you take a slight amount of prudence.
This is TRUE immortality, you can never die as long as you take a slight amount of prudence.
... AND ensure that Aspis Consortium agents don't slip and and coup de grace you while you are "out".
Wait, why did this get moved to advice? Was pretty sure I was asking a question specifically about rules interaction within PFS. Wasn't asking for build advice or anything. Does this mean it works?
It seems ok but this archetype seems to need a bit of work in the writing department to be perfectly clear. Your 8th level ability probably won't work since you will likely have an improved familiar at that time and can't beastshape into its type. Also when you return from your familiar to your dead body it doesn't give any mention of bringing any HP with you. Do you have to get a Breath of Life ready for when your soul goes back to it? Could getting someone to cast heal (doesn't have the living creature requirement that cures have) on your dead body before you return to it do the trick?Nothing in the rules says that you're body died, just that it needs to be gravely injured to initiate the change. Beat yourself down to whatever point is considered gravely injured (-1 should do it) and jump into your familiar and cast a few heals to bring you positive and leave the healthy but empty body at the lodge under guard. THEN you go on the adventure.
As for risking the familiar being a bad thing for a witch remember the body swap thing works both ways. If your familiar gets killed in battle it (and you) are immediately shipped back to the lodge where your body is and you BOTH sit in that healthy body. From there you can recover (or steal a new one) the familiars body and continue the adventure.
This is TRUE immortality, you can never die as long as you take a slight amount of prudence.
I guess you are right, I just wish gravely injured was a little better defined.
While you won't have this ability very long if PFS I suppose it does allow you to play an evil character. If you have a familiar and character in the same body, any time a GM wants to slap you with an alignment infringement, "My imp did it!"
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This is TRUE immortality, you can never die as long as you take a slight amount of prudence.... AND ensure that Aspis Consortium agents don't slip and and coup de grace you while you are "out".
Doesn't matter if they do you'll still be alive.
Remember, the only way for you to die is for you AND your imp to be killed at the same time. If one of the bodies dies anyone who's in it automatically jumps into the other body. It takes some massive coordination, luck and shenanigans to ever kill a beast-bonded witch. They are even harder to kill then a paranoid lich. (phylaceteries don't run away and/or fight back like witches do).
At 10th-level, if the witch or her familiar is gravely injured or about to die, the soul of the dying one immediately transfers to the other’s body.
If you are visiting in your familiar and it begins to die, I am not sure you are sent back to your body. This is another thing that could be clarified. Is your soul transported home, lost, free to magic jar someone, returned to your body if the two bodies touch?
Also what rules do you follow for keeping feats in your familiar. It would make sense to retain things like say "extra hex" but not "endurance".
Familiar melding can help get access to the body early.
Next question, do you still need extra slot to use magic items while riding your familiar?
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Depends on your familiar. Any of the humanoid shaped familiars (Imp, Quasit, Homonculus, etc) all have all normal slots automatically. The rest of the familiars, especially in PFS, don't and are restricted to the inside cover of the animal archive. Except in PFS there they are restricted to just neck slots and you have to burn feats to get any others.
Now since Familiars, unlike Animal Companions, don't ever gain feats of their own means only a Beast Bonded Witch can ever get more than 3 slots on their familiars.
edit: Remember, familiar melding lets you get into the body but doesn't give you the immortality and you REALLY have to be careful. One decent hit and you are in big trouble.
Normally they start with slots you have to buy for pfs, even imps and quasits have to buy them. According to current faqs, the homoculus can't ever use anything over the neck/barding(?) slot.
Additionally, animal companions have access to magical item slots, in addition to barding and neck, as listed on the inside front cover of the Animal Archive so long as they select the Extra Item Slot feat. The Animal Magic Item Slots table found in Animal Archive is not a legal except under the following conditions. First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat (this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature’s anatomy). Second, access to specific magic item slots may be granted at a later date by another legal source. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.
The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. The carbuncle and voidworm protean, familiars granted by the Improved Familiar feat, uses the Serpentine section of the chart. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.
I think chances are Mike is the only one that could really answer the question definitively of whether or it would need extra slots while inhabiting their body because outside of PFS it is a non-issue.
You are right about the familiar being a bit weak, but so are witches taking a solid hit. At least you could be invisible and flying with an imp all the time or regenerating with a couple others.
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I always forget they forgot to add the homonculus to the biped list. The devs have consistently targeted the homonculus with the nerf hammer every time it's mentioned. I think it's personal against me actually.
Anyway, if you look at your faq quote above you'll see that the biped list of familiars are specifically called out to use the chart from animal archive and that chart states the hands list gets every slot. Why the faerie dragon is on the biped list I have no clue but whatever.
Right, but it has a PFS nerf. Normally Extra Slot gets you something not on that list, but for PFS you are assumed to just start with neck and barding and the Extra Slot will get you something that is on the list.
"First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat (this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature’s anatomy)."
The first line of that paragraph is a little sloppy but I think the intent comes across when you read the full paragraph.
"animal companions have access to magical item slots, in addition to barding and neck, as listed on the inside front cover of the Animal Archive so long as they select the Extra Item Slot feat. "
Should say for clarity, something like:
"Animal companions, familiars, and bonded mounts only have access to magical item slots for barding and neck. The Extra Item Slot feat may be used to gain access to any slot listed available on the inside cover of Animal Archive"
It seems like they were trying to write in a very passive voice to avoid sounding like a nerf.
EDIT: To Spaceball, this is just a suggestion so take it for what it is worth, but I would not recommend this as a first character. PFS is very concerned with Rules As Written, and with so many grey areas in this archetype, I don't know that it would be a good one to lose the training wheels on. I thought about making one a very long time ago, it does have some really cool flavor, but as it stands I think this class will likely see a lot of table variation.