Overrun an ally?

[anthonydido]

Talks of overrun in another thread got me thinking of a possible scenario and whether it would be legal.

Overrun states that it can be done during a charge. Also, the target being overrun can choose to let the person go past.

What if you wanted to charge an enemy but you had an ally directly between you and the enemy. Could you charge the enemy and overrun the ally with them letting you by and continue the charge to the enemy?

[Ord]

By default, you cannot do this. When used as part of a charge, the target of the overrun is the target of the charge.

However, the feat Charge Through allows you to charge a target and overrun a secondary target that is between you and the charge target. In this case, if the overrun target is an ally, they can choose to let you by with no overrun check, allowing you to proceed with the charge to the original target.

[DM_Blake]

The key phrase in the CRB, Overrun rules, states "As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target". In other words, the target of the overrun IS the target of the charge. You cannot just select a target, then charge to that target and make your one attack at the end while overrunning everything in the way.

So doing what you want would make your ally the target of the charge which means you wouldn't have an enemy ALSO as the target since Charge only gives you one target.

[anthonydido]

Ah, ok. I was unaware of the Charge Through feat. Anytime I see a feat that grants a certain way to do something I assume that it can't be done normally anyway. Thanks.

[Protoman]

This is why I like the Dragon Style feat. Charge over difficult terrain and through allies. Needs improved unarmed strike though.

[Cunning Fox]

Protoman wrote:

This is why I like the Dragon Style feat. Charge over difficult terrain and through allies. Needs improved unarmed strike though.

Which is what is nice about taking the Tengus Alternate Racial Trait Claw Attack: Tengus with this racial trait have learned to use their claws as natural weapons. They gain two claw attacks as primary natural attacks that deal 1d3 points of damage, and are treated as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of qualifying for other feats. This racial trait replaces swordtrained.

[EvilMinion]

As mentioned, without Charge Through, the target of your charge is the target of your overrun, so you can't charge over allies.

With Charge Through however, you can charge over allies... but unfortunately, the prerequisite for Charge Through is Improved Overrun.

And Improved Overrun has the following bonus: 'Targets of your overrun attempt may not chose to avoid you.'

So yes, Charge Through will let you charge over allies to get to your foe... but they can't get out of the way.

So, to summarize: No, you can't use Overrun to move over allies and just have them safely step aside =)

But since Charge Through takes 3 feats (Power Attack, Improved Overrun, and Charge Through), that brings us back to the afore mentioned Dragon Style, which only requires 2 feats (Improved Unarmed Strike, and Dragon Style)

[Experiment 626]

EvilMinion wrote:

And Improved Overrun has the following bonus: 'Targets of your overrun attempt may not chose to avoid you.'

You're not forced to use the feat if you choose not to.

[Gwen Smith]

But if the target chooses not to avoid you, then you have allies between you and your charge target, and you can't charge.