Extra iterative attack with flurry of blows BAB?

[Brohansolo]

A monk treats his BAB as his monk level when using flurry of blows. Would a monk 4/paladin 2 attack sequence when flurrying be:

+4/+4 (2 attacks at -2 each) or +4/+4/-1 (extra iterative attack because of +6 BAB when flurrying (4 from monk level, 2 BAB from paladin)?

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

I believe +4/+4/-1.

The BAB for flurry scales with you regardless, but you just don't get the extra attacks at levels 8 and 15 unless you happen to be Monk level 8 and/or 15.

Someone back me up on that?

[Kazaan]

Let me make sure I understand the question here.

Normally, you get an iterative attack every +5 BAB. So, at +5 BAB, you have only 1 attack but at +6 BAB, you get two attacks, one at BAB and a second at BAB-5. This even works when you combine BAB from multiple classes so Paladin 3/Fighter 3 has a total of +6 BAB so they get two iterative attacks. Monk is normally a mid-bab class, meaning they get +3/4 BAB (rounded down) per level, but when they flurry, they count as a full-bab class. Without Flurry, a Monk 4/Paladin 2 would have +3 Bab from Monk and +2 Bab from Paladin for a total of +5 BAB which normally gives only 1 iterative attack. But, with Flurry of Blows, the total BAB is, effectively, +6. You're asking if a Monk 4/Paladin 2 would get 2 iterative attacks (plus flurry bonus attack) or just 1 iterative (plus flurry bonus attack).

If that's correct, then the answer is "two iterative attacks". Even a straight Monk, at level 6, gets Flurry +4/+4/-1, even though his "base BAB" is only +4. This accounts for your first iterative at +4, second iterative at -1, and your only bonus flurry attack at +4; you don't get a second bonus flurry attack until Monk 8. So, a Monk 4/Pal 2 doing Flurry treats his BAB as +6 and, thus, would Flurry at +4/+4/-1. If this was an archetype that drops Flurry, on the other hand, and took the TWF feat to "rebuild" it, his BAB would only be +5 and, with a light off-hand, he'd attack at +3/+3 (1 iterative/1 off-hand).

[Kjeldor]

I would say neither."a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action" now that I add this quote I don't think it does much for me. Even if you flurry as a monk4/ Paladin 16, your FoB would only be +2/+2. It does not stack with your BAB from Paladin "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus." thus it stays as a +2/+2 due to only 4 monk levles.

[CrystalSpellblade]

Incorrect Kjeldor. They do add their other BAB to hit.

FAQ wrote:

Monk: The monk rules for flurry state, "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." How does this interact with BAB from class levels and racial Hit Dice? Does a multiclassed fighter 19/monk 1 flurry as if his BAB were only +1?

A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total.

So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.

[Bearded Ben]

Kjeldor wrote:

I would say neither."a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action" now that I add this quote I don't think it does much for me. Even if you flurry as a monk4/ Paladin 16, your FoB would only be +2/+2. It does not stack with your BAB from Paladin "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus." thus it stays as a +2/+2 due to only 4 monk levles.

The FAQ says otherwise:

Quote:

Monk: The monk rules for flurry state, "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." How does this interact with BAB from class levels and racial Hit Dice? Does a multiclassed fighter 19/monk 1 flurry as if his BAB were only +1?

A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total.

So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.

—Sean K Reynolds, 09/10/10

[Kjeldor]

I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing that out to me. That being said your answers don't answer the original. With me seeing the corrected rules, I would think that a M-4/P-2 would have a +4/+4/-1 attack rotation. Due to acting like having TWF at a full BAB. That is how I know understand it, but I have been wrong before.

[Driver 325 yards]

Kazaan wrote:

Let me make sure I understand the question here.

Normally, you get an iterative attack every +5 BAB. So, at +5 BAB, you have only 1 attack but at +6 BAB, you get two attacks, one at BAB and a second at BAB-5. This even works when you combine BAB from multiple classes so Paladin 3/Fighter 3 has a total of +6 BAB so they get two iterative attacks. Monk is normally a mid-bab class, meaning they get +3/4 BAB (rounded down) per level, but when they flurry, they count as a full-bab class. Without Flurry, a Monk 4/Paladin 2 would have +3 Bab from Monk and +2 Bab from Paladin for a total of +5 BAB which normally gives only 1 iterative attack. But, with Flurry of Blows, the total BAB is, effectively, +6. You're asking if a Monk 4/Paladin 2 would get 2 iterative attacks (plus flurry bonus attack) or just 1 iterative (plus flurry bonus attack).

If that's correct, then the answer is "two iterative attacks". Even a straight Monk, at level 6, gets Flurry +4/+4/-1, even though his "base BAB" is only +4. This accounts for your first iterative at +4, second iterative at -1, and your only bonus flurry attack at +4; you don't get a second bonus flurry attack until Monk 8. So, a Monk 4/Pal 2 doing Flurry treats his BAB as +6 and, thus, would Flurry at +4/+4/-1. If this was an archetype that drops Flurry, on the other hand, and took the TWF feat to "rebuild" it, his BAB would only be +5 and, with a light off-hand, he'd attack at +3/+3 (1 iterative/1 off-hand).

While you are definitely correct and impressively thorough, I think what the OP really wants to know is when his monk/paladin flurry BAB reaches +8, will he get four flurry attacks like a monk or will he get three flurry attacks?

[Gauss]

A Monk using Flurry of Blows gains the BAB from other classes but NOT the extra (TWF type) attacks if he has not reached the appropriate levels.

FoB quote:

CRB p57 FoB wrote:

At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

If the monk level is not 8 or better he does not get the extra attacks.
If the monk level is not 15 or better he again, does not get the extra attacks.

So where does that leave us?
Well, a monk4/paladin2 has a FoB of +4/+4*/-1 because the -1 is not an extra attack resulting from TWF.
The attack with the asterisk is the attack from the TWF effect of FoB.

A monk4/paladin4 has a FoB of +6/+6*/+1 but not +6/+6*/+1/+1**.
The attack with the asterisk is the attack from the TWF effect of FoB while the double asterisk is the attack from the Improved TWF effect of FoB.

A monk4/paladin11 has a FoB of +13/+13*/+8/+3 but not +13/+13*/+8/+8**/+3/+3***.
The attack with the asterisk is the attack from the TWF effect of FoB while the double asterisk is the attack from the Improved TWF effect of FoB and the triple asterisk is the attack from the Greater TWF effect of FoB.

- Gauss

[Kazaan]

Driver 325 yards wrote:

While you are definitely correct and impressively thorough, I think what the OP really wants to know is when his monk/paladin flurry BAB reaches +8, will he get four flurry attacks like a monk or will he get three flurry attacks?

Why would he? The Bonus attacks granted by FoB aren't determined by BAB, they're determined by Monk Level. A Monk doesn't get a bonus attack because his Flurry BAB reached +8, he gets it because his Monk level reached 8. It doesn't seem that's what the OP is asking because he is asking about the difference between a +4/+4 attack and a +4/+4/-1 attack. If he were asking about a second bonus attack, he'd be asking about +4/+4/-1 vs +4/+4/-1/-1.

[Brohansolo]

I was indeed asking if he would get two iterative attacks and you guys did a great job at answering it, thanks for the rule cited explanation!