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My friends and I are planning a game of pathfinder, with most of us being inexperienced, including myself.
We're not really worried about min/maxing focusing more on fluff instead. and I'd like to make a non-lethal character, ideally one who doesn't use magic (I've never really liked magic). We may not be striving for the most effective characters, but I don't want to drag my party down at any point, and I know I am putting myself at disadvantage already by focusing on nonlethal. I've encountered a few problems so far:
-Diplomacy seems like it would be useful for this, but charisma is otherwise useless for non-magic characters
-Nonlethal close combat builds seem fine early on, but begin to flounder with age.
-A lot of Ultimate Combat rules and feats seem useful (called shot, sap adept/master, stage combatant, bludgeoner), but I don't want to over-complicate things for my group.
-Nonlethal bow builds seem to age better (and sounds cooler from a fluff perspective), but require at least three levels before they start being feasible.
Right now I am considering a half-elf Fighter (archer) / monk (zen archer) build, getting three levels in fighter first for disarming with bow, then focusing more on zen archer. I have no idea how feasible this would be.
I acknowledge some of my conditions will probably have to be broken to make this work. Any sort of help and input is appreciated.
What you could do is someone (unfortunately I'm not sure exactly what class would be best, maybe MM monk) who focuses on combat maneuvers. Your character would grapple foes and let others kill them. Maybe you run around and trip everything. Maybe you (not a CM, but still) max out intimidate and use it in combat. Hope this helped!
You should take at a Thug Archetype Rouge based on using a sap and is focused on intimidation.
Traits:
Blade of Mercy
Feats:
Enforcer
Dazzling Display -> Shatter Defenses
Sap Adept -> Sap Master
Rogue Talents:
Weapon Focus (Sap)
Strong Impression
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Since I have just come off of ranting about its benefits, I will plug in the Brawler archetype for fighter, with maybe a level in monk to get improved unarmed strike (which can be nonlethal, of course). Or just go strait brawler, grab a cestus or brass knuckles, and grab the bludgeoner feat
Besides the fact that brawlers gives a lot of bonuses to close weapons (including unarmed strike), you can also take advantage of two specific and interrelated abilities unique to the archetype. You see, their harrying stance ability gives a scaling debuff that lowers attack rolls by up to -4 and concentration checks by up to -7 just because you are standing next to that opponnent. This both acts like extra AC for everyone the enemy attacks and can shut down spell casting.
The above ability only works when you are standing next to the opponent though. That is why the archetype has the ability to stop opponents from ever leaving your reach. This occurs when the feat stand still (which uses a maneuver check that can stop opponents from moving when they would give you an AoO for doing so) is combined with the appropriately named Brawler ability called No Escape (which, in summary, gives you an AoO in just about any situation where the enemy could try to move away from you).
Combined, these abilities allow you to hold down important target so that they do not get close to your allies and prevents them from effectively doing anything to stop it. You are also free to use as many full attacks as you like to pommel the target of course. So be it a large beasty that wants to eat your wizard or an evil sorcerer that could use a Save or Die to take everyone else out at once, you can stop them from doing so. How is that for battlefield control? This approach also has the advantage of using a lot less rules and feats than grappling, and it can still work even if the opponent is 100 feet tall and has a million legs. There are no modifiers to your combat maneuver check as far as I am aware(although the 100 feet tall thing would mean serious strength bonus to size I suppose, which would make it hard to stop)
As I hate nickelback said, A CMB focused monk coudl be a good place to look.
Or - a Wizard without a spellbook is without magic and is close to non-lethal *sorry* :-)
If you want to do non-lethal damage it is one thing, but if you want to do non-lethal combat you might want to look at the tetori monk. I've never played one so I have no idea if tetori monks work well or not, but I have done grappling and after a few grappling combats the rules are automatic and not boggy.
Inquisitor of Irori. Conversion Inquisition.
Nightmare fist, Boar Style.
Just make a Monk and say your unarmed strikes do nonlethal. Then if you need to kill, switch to lethal.
Brawler Fighter works too.
xXAbyssusXx wrote: You should take at a Thug Archetype Rouge based on using a sap and is focused on intimidation.
Traits:
Blade of Mercy
Feats:
Enforcer
Dazzling Display -> Shatter Defenses
Sap Adept -> Sap Master
Rogue Talents:
Weapon Focus (Sap)
Strong Impression
Blistering Invective Wand for kicks?
The Bludgeoneer feat allows you to deal nonlethal damage with any bludgeoning weapon, without penalty, and explicitly works with sneak attack.
Also, if you're going for nonlethal, you should take a look at the Enforcer feat, which gives you a free Intimidate check to demoralize your target when you deal nonlethal damage; if successful, they're shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage you dealt. Combine that with the thug archetype for the rogue, and if you demoralize an opponent for four plus rounds, you can instead frighten them for one round, instead.
Doesn't work on anything immune to fear effects, but still very nice. If you go with it, there's a half-orc alternate racial trait called Chain Fighter that gives proficiency with flails and heavy flails, and they've got a racial bonus to Intimidate...
Here is what I have in mind for my character:
Foulspawn Tiefling Thug Rogue
Skilled (Racial Trait) - +2 to Intimidate/Knowledge (Religion)
Blade of Mercy (Religion Trait) - No penalty for non-lethal slashing attacks, +1 to non-lethal damage (Setup for Enforcer feat)
Choice between:
Memorable (Social Trait) - When Demoralizing, if effect lasts more than 2 rounds, increase duration by another round.
or
Dominator (Regional Trait) - +2 to Intimidate to Demoralize
Frightening (Archetype ability) - Shaken duration increases by 1 round using Intimidate to Demoralize. If shaken for 4+ rounds, can convert to Frightened for 1 round
Monstrous Mask (Base Feat) - +5 to Intimidate against Humanoids
I have a decent Charisma (16)
3 CHA
2 Skilled
4 Rank 1 + Class Skill
5 vs Humanoids
2 Dominator (Just for simplicity sake)
+11 Intimidate to Demoralize
+16 Intimidate to Demoralize Humanoids
+20 Intimidate to Demoralize Small Humanoids
Will grab Enforcer at level 2 with Rogue Trick -> Combat Trick
At Level 5, will obtain Ancestral Scorn to make Evil Outsiders Sickened/Nauseated when Demoralized, on top of the Frightened
I'm liking the rogue build based on intimidation, as it gives me an excuse to maintain a good charisma. However, how often should I expect to run into things immune to fear?
If you want to Intimidate, Inquisitor will be superior.
JohnRulz wrote: I'd like to make a non-lethal character, ideally one who doesn't use magic (I've never really liked magic). blackbloodtroll wrote: If you want to Intimidate, Inquisitor will be superior. - Johnrulz - I know you said you don't like magic, and I don't know you personally, but as a previously martial class exclusive player who recently started trying his hand at divine casting, first by expanding my Barbarian into Oracle to become a Rage Caster and now with 2 Cleric(s). I have had a blast trying this out, and I am looking forward to trying an Inquisitor (and maybe an Alchemist).
Inquisitor might be a good way to try a spellcaster if you haven't, and other than that you can benefit from teamwork feats that you take - whether the rest of the party takes them or not! Thanks to the Solo Tactics class ability.
Another one I am looking forward to trying is the Vivisectionist Alchemist Archtype from Ultimate Magic - and I also want him to be a non-lethal expert. This way you get ways to buff yourself and sneak attack damage.
Just food for thought!
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