Acane Strike simple question


Rules Questions


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Arcane Strike (Combat)

You draw upon your arcane power to enhance your weapons with magical energy.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.

Benefit: As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

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Does your weapons mean any weapon you use, I mean, if I do use two, three or more weapons the enhancement bonus will apply to both weapons?

Also, is there any limitation on how many times per day we can use this ability?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Rules as Written there is no limitation on how often you can use this, save that it uses your swift action for that round. Yes, if you use multiple weapons, this benefit applies to all of them, including natural weapons.


Thanks =D


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Does Sorcerer level stack with Bard levels for the purpose of calculating the bonus from Arcane Strike?


No. Each class has separate caster level (except for prestige classes that specifically increase caster level of existing class).

Liberty's Edge

I vaguely recall another thread that argues that since arcane strike says your caster levels rather than your caster level it would stack. I don't know how that thread ended though.


ShadowcatX wrote:
I vaguely recall another thread that argues that since arcane strike says your caster levels rather than your caster level it would stack. I don't know how that thread ended though.

Very weak argument. There is no way to grammatically write that sentence without using plural form of "level" in the sequence discussed.

Caster levels don't stack unless explicitly stated they would stack for some purpose - if they were meant to be added together from all arcane classes to calculate them it would be explicitly written as unique (or almost unique) approach to caster level usage.


'For every five caster levelS you possess'.

Bard 2/Sorcerer 3 is definitely 5 caster levels.


Understood. Besides Bard in this case Arcane Duelist Bard, what are the other good melee arcane casters and prestige classes? I'm guessing Magus but don't know about the others, if there is the "perfect" arcane melee I'm all ears.


The rules assumes you are single classed. Caster level don't stack unless it is specifically stated.

If you have 5 levels of druid, and 5 levels of wizard you are still a level 5 caster so when you use Arcane strike or try to overcome a creature's spell resistance you only get to count that 5 for the purpose of the effect.


wraithstrike wrote:

The rules assumes you are single classed. Caster level don't stack unless it is specifically stated.

If you have 5 levels of druid, and 5 levels of wizard you are still a level 5 caster so when you use Arcane strike or try to overcome a creature's spell resistance you only get to count that 5 for the purpose of the effect.

It says "for every 5 caster levels you possess"

if you possess 5 caster levels from druid and 5 caster levels from wizard, you possess 10 caster levels.

It doesn't say "for every 5 caster levels beyond 5th" which is what it would say (and other abilities do say) if it wanted to check caster level rather than total applicable levels.


Clearly it means any weapons you own. So if you own all the weapons the party uses, everyone benefits.

More seriously, I agree that RAW is that caster levels from multiple sources stack for Arcane Strike. I can't think of anywhere that would cause a problem (it really helps weaker characters more than anything). If they wanted it just from one class, it could have specified that.


Drachasor wrote:

Clearly it means any weapons you own. So if you own all the weapons the party uses, everyone benefits.

More seriously, I agree that RAW is that caster levels from multiple sources stack for Arcane Strike. I can't think of anywhere that would cause a problem (it really helps weaker characters more than anything). If they wanted it just from one class, it could have specified that.

Why would it have to specify it if the normal rules assume they don't stack?


wraithstrike wrote:
Drachasor wrote:

Clearly it means any weapons you own. So if you own all the weapons the party uses, everyone benefits.

More seriously, I agree that RAW is that caster levels from multiple sources stack for Arcane Strike. I can't think of anywhere that would cause a problem (it really helps weaker characters more than anything). If they wanted it just from one class, it could have specified that.

Why would it have to specify it if the normal rules assume they don't stack?

Don't stack for what purposes?

Casting a spell? You use the Caster Level for that class. There's no question of what you use. Pre-req for a feat? It specifies a minimum caster level, so you need that minimum from a class.

This ability doesn't use the wording that would restrict it to caster levels from one class. It doesn't say, "At Caster Level 5 and every 5 Caster Levels therafter, this bonus increases by 1."

It just said, for every 5 caster levels you possess. It's the wording that matters.

Hmm, regarding my joke above, it should probably say "all weapons you use this round" or something like that. It clearly is avoiding "all weapons you wield" to ally it to be used with throwing weapons.


there are some interesting edge cases to consider here as well:

- multiclass characters with multiple caster levels (mystic theurge for example that might have far more than 20 levels total of caster levels)

- traits or feats that boost caster level (since the feat specifies Caster Level not class level I think by RAW and RAI traits like magical knack would apply here

- how does Arcane Strike resolve for a character with different caster levels depending on the specific spell or spell like ability? (i.e. spell specialization for example) or a race that has a spell like ability that works on the total character level not on a class level.


Drejk wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
I vaguely recall another thread that argues that since arcane strike says your caster levels rather than your caster level it would stack. I don't know how that thread ended though.

Very weak argument. There is no way to grammatically write that sentence without using plural form of "level" in the sequence discussed.

Caster levels don't stack unless explicitly stated they would stack for some purpose - if they were meant to be added together from all arcane classes to calculate them it would be explicitly written as unique (or almost unique) approach to caster level usage.

I would tend to agree with you, but there is a way to write that sentence grammatically without using a plural of the word 'level'.

"For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level."

Rewrite:

'Each time your caster level reaches a multiple of 5, the bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at caster level 20.'


Drachasor wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Drachasor wrote:

Clearly it means any weapons you own. So if you own all the weapons the party uses, everyone benefits.

More seriously, I agree that RAW is that caster levels from multiple sources stack for Arcane Strike. I can't think of anywhere that would cause a problem (it really helps weaker characters more than anything). If they wanted it just from one class, it could have specified that.

Why would it have to specify it if the normal rules assume they don't stack?

Don't stack for what purposes?

Casting a spell? You use the Caster Level for that class. There's no question of what you use. Pre-req for a feat? It specifies a minimum caster level, so you need that minimum from a class.

This ability doesn't use the wording that would restrict it to caster levels from one class. It doesn't say, "At Caster Level 5 and every 5 Caster Levels therafter, this bonus increases by 1."

It just said, for every 5 caster levels you possess. It's the wording that matters.

Hmm, regarding my joke above, it should probably say "all weapons you use this round" or something like that. It clearly is avoiding "all weapons you wield" to ally it to be used with throwing weapons.

So which caster levels stack. Is it only arcane caster levels since you have to be arcane caster to even get the feat or is it all caster levels?

Can I take 1 level of wizard, and 4 levels of cleric to get a +2?

Yes or no and why?


Rycaut wrote:

there are some interesting edge cases to consider here as well:

- multiclass characters with multiple caster levels (mystic theurge for example that might have far more than 20 levels total of caster levels)

- traits or feats that boost caster level (since the feat specifies Caster Level not class level I think by RAW and RAI traits like magical knack would apply here

- how does Arcane Strike resolve for a character with different caster levels depending on the specific spell or spell like ability? (i.e. spell specialization for example) or a race that has a spell like ability that works on the total character level not on a class level.

1. Theurge is the only option, I think. They have crap BAB, so no problem.

2. Yes, they would. Big whoop if you manage to squeeze an extra damage or two out (and two would be quite hard).

3. That's probably the only edge case of possible concern. As written, it would effectively double the bonus. So that actually starts to make it nice. (I'm not very impressed with Arcane Strike overall, we're talking about something that ends up being worth a bit more than a die of SA. Granted, you don't need flanking, but it isn't anything to sweat over).


wraithstrike wrote:

So which caster levels stack. Is it only arcane caster levels since you have to be arcane caster to even get the feat or is it all caster levels?

Can I take 1 level of wizard, and 4 levels of cleric to get a +2?

Yes or no and why?

A very strict reading would allow any caster level to work. Probably the RAI is for arcane caster levels only.


Since it has a hard cap of +5 many of these things are not a real concern. Sure it might be able to be cheesed so it gets there faster (might being the key word here as much of this is suspect at best.)

Though its value is something I feel is underestimated by some. Firstly static bonuses are ALWAYS more valuable then extra dice. So while its damage is slightly less then 2 SA dice its considerably more valuable.

Even the fact that static is better if there was a feat that gave 1-2 SA dice it would be a often used feat I am sure of it. Heck it even trumps both weapon specialization feats combined. Granted they are weak feats but both in one would be a solid feat.

Of course its value comes down to swift action economy. If your build has no other use for swift actions (which is not uncommon.) then its gold. If you need swift actions though then it could be as low as trash.


Drachasor wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

So which caster levels stack. Is it only arcane caster levels since you have to be arcane caster to even get the feat or is it all caster levels?

Can I take 1 level of wizard, and 4 levels of cleric to get a +2?

Yes or no and why?

A very strict reading would allow any caster level to work. Probably the RAI is for arcane caster levels only.

ok..I am more inclined to agree with that since I don't think it's game breaking..

Extending it to divine casters or SLA based caster levels might cause problems since a class can have a caster level for SLA's and actual class based caster levels. So could certain monsters like dragons or outsiders.


There are feats that require a caster level of X, and as far as I'm aware, those prerequisites are looking at non-stacked caster levels.

Would you argue otherwise? Why?
Could a wizard 3/cleric 6 qualify for Craft Rod, by claiming that their caster levels stack up to the required CL 9? Why?


yeti1069 wrote:

There are feats that require a caster level of X, and as far as I'm aware, those prerequisites are looking at non-stacked caster levels.

Would you argue otherwise? Why?
Could a wizard 3/cleric 6 qualify for Craft Rod, by claiming that their caster levels stack up to the required CL 9? Why?

No, because the requirement isn't "your total caster levels must be 9", rather it is "you must have a caster level OF 9".

Very different.


Off-topic:
Every time someone has "simple question" in the title, the answer has never been really been simple. :)

Liberty's Edge

Drachasor wrote:

....

(I'm not very impressed with Arcane Strike overall, we're talking about something that ends up being worth a bit more than a die of SA. Granted, you don't need flanking, but it isn't anything to sweat over).

With one feat and one swift action each round you get the equivalent of weapon specialization at level 5, greater weapon specialization at level 15 with all the weapons you use during the round.

And it stack with weapon specialization.

Yes, not impressive at all. /sarcasm

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RAW I think what matter is your highest caster level in a arcane class.
I see no problems in allowing a character to sum up all of his arcane caster levels in different classes for the use with Arcane strike, but traits (or feats) like Magical Knack would still be incapable to raise his CL above his character level.

The interpretation that you only need to be capable to cast Arcane spells only to take the feat but that the benefit isn't limited to your arcane caster levels seem a stretch but is a possible interpretation.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Drachasor wrote:

....

(I'm not very impressed with Arcane Strike overall, we're talking about something that ends up being worth a bit more than a die of SA. Granted, you don't need flanking, but it isn't anything to sweat over).

With one feat and one swift action each round you get the equivalent of weapon specialization at level 5, greater weapon specialization at level 15 with all the weapons you use during the round.

And it stack with weapon specialization.

Yes, not impressive at all. /sarcasm

Weapon Specialization feats are horrible. Also, losing your swift action is not a trivial cost. There are tons of things that can be done with a swift.

Being a bit better than two crappy feats...if you are high enough in level, doesn't make it great. It certainly doesn't make it impressive.


It is a feat that gets better the more attacks you have.

As a pure caster probably most valuable when you use something like Form of the Dragon.

For my PFS dragon disciple/paladin/bard it is very handy for any turn I don't need my swift for something else. Adding +2 (soon +3) to every attack I get is non-trivial when you start stacking iterative attacks and secondary natural attacks. Especially good since it was "free" with my bard archetype. And the boost it offers stacks with both smite and bardic performance - inspire courage.


I didn't mean to imply it was bad. Just that there are lots of better feats out there, even if you are liberal about caster level stacking. Beyond that, comparing it to weapon specializations is silly. If it was one feat that scaled, it would be quite mediocre.

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:

Off-topic:

Every time someone has "simple question" in the title, the answer has never been really been simple. :)

The answer to the original question was simple. It is just the follow up question that's difficult.

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