As a dm, when and where is it a good place and time to use death spells against my players? There are quite a few monsters and class types that have death spells and abilities and im wondering when its okay to use said instant death, no coming back abilities?
Doing a campaign right now and my group is split on the use of them. One side believes that those abilities that can ne used against them should be swept under the rug and one side is all for it for the sake of tension and playing smart. Ive decided to use said abilities because well basically the ones that are against it have specced themselves in a way to basically plow thru most things without breaking a sweat. And thats fine, but I believe if the players have access to basically instant death abilities then so should the enemy as well.
BUT at the same time, I wanna be cautious and basically make it nown when something or someone has the ability and give them warning ingame without breaking immersion so that players can get a grasp that somethings nasty is coming up and give them a chance to avoid if they pay attention or think.
That way the players who dont wanna get instant death have a way to avoid said scenario without having to rely on a die roll and such and the players who do want the tension and excitment can see that some really nasty stuff is about to happen and get the rush that they no death is near.
In no way do I want to actually nowingly target someone ( I always have a die roll for who it targets) and I dont want to give instant deaths without warning either.
So anyone have any advice to using deatb spells against ur players?
I think instant death effects are poor design and have no place in the game. But then, I think the same thing about resurrection effects.
That said, it is acceptable to use them when the group's social contract expects it--like if you were playing an old-school Gygaxian style game, or one in the style of Paranoia.
There is a huge difference between players using them and npcs using them. NPCs are highly expendable and most foes die anyway, and pretty consistently. However, when you start using them against your players sometimes it feels like they are just rolling dice to see if they die without any action, and that's just anti climactic. Could you imagine your feelings if your whole party died against a circle of death or cloudkill?
Anyways, as a DM I usually avoid using them and ask players to tone it down. It can be anti-climactic for both sides. I've been told the best way to handle it is to enter into an agreement with the players about what spells neither side can use.
I dont want my players to die in an anticlimatic way either. I guess what im asking for is advice how to use the death spells on the players but have them survive but atbthe same time with them feeling like they narrowly escaped death when really they wasnt at all? Like having a skinstealer try to steal someones skin, ways I can go about having the skin stealer try and having it obvious to the players what hes doing, but in a way they are really safe from it without them nowing. A cleric casting death spells, are there any type of spells that can dispell or resist or protect against such spells, etc etc.
Sry dont believe I was very clear now that im reading it...sigh lol.
Was wanting some examples of creatures/spells u no of that are/use instant death abilities and having them try it but in a way the players can feel fear but be totally safe from?
Death spells lost a lot of their bite in Pathfinder. A few still exist, but are limited in scope, requiring weakened opponents (death knell), weak foes (cloudkill, circle of death), or high level magic (power word kill). The classic death spells just deal lots of damage (see slay living, finger of death, destruction) nowadays. These can be mitigated by good saves, healing, SR, good touch AC, etc. Death ward still helps quite a bit, as does the 8th level domain power of the Repose domain. Really, most death effects aren't truly save or die, but save or hurt a lot. Death's lost a lot of bite with Pathfinder.
Was wanting some examples of creatures/spells u no of that are/use instant death abilities and having them try it but in a way the players can feel fear but be totally safe from?
Well, personally I've always felt like death was always a part of the equation, even without instant death. Instant death steals all the fun from me on a personal level though. I don't have a chance to feel fear, not like I would if the glass ceiling broke and began showering on me, the tentacle beast had it in my grasp, or if the building was on fire and I was in an epic showdown. In all of those cases I have a chance to escape, more than just a dice roll I can take action! If there is a skin stealing beast describe it stealing away their twisted flesh as it attacks, draining their con/str what have you and slowly gaining girth and power reciprocally.
That's just me though, I don't know what your group likes. The big thing is creating threat without instantaneous roll a dice and die/save. Its a lot more fun escaping from something yourself than just rolling a dice and its done imo. Slumber hex for instance is just save you live, lose you die. Where's the excitement? I take a nap if I lose and get CdG'd, or if I don't lose I... keep going like I was?
That depends on the play style of your group. There are not really that many true SoD spells left. Many of them do hit point damage now. I do still use them as a GM, but not a lot. Now if I am running a campaign in hard mode and players say they are on board for such a game I would use them more. Part of me avoiding them is for the player's fun, and they can lead to wasted actions so it really helps everyone depending on how you look at it.
PS:If an NPC's attitude dictates that as something he would do then I would do it.
I've always tended to avoid them as GM before pathfinder especially now a lot of the old ones can get more use but I've always hated save-or-die mechanics sure it makes for an intense roll but losing a character with tons of backstory and subplots on a single roll is a well anticlimatic, but if the players start throwing such abilities around willy nilly the NPC bosses will respond in kind...
Sounds like a good idea to let them no the risk somehow though how to do it without breaking immersion is tough