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I just recently got a really cool figure, and I was working on making a character to match it. The figure has 2 warhammers and chain mail armor.
I was thinking he would make a really cool looking cleric of Torag with the prof in warhammers, but am having trouble getting it done. Ultimately, I would like to see a cleric who can sub in as fighter-lite (Crusader archetype came to mind) but I'm having trouble with the feats and ability point array.
I thought about going fighter with it, but with the way that damage reduction works, the character may be gimped in damage delivery. I also toyed with the idea of dipping into Ranger to get the combat style. Both of these options dig into the bursting and spellcasting abilities though heavier than taking an archetype.
Any advice out there to make something like this work?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Hm... Your biggest hurdles are definitely going to be the TWF feat requirements and the stats.
For tackling feats, you could dip one or two levels of fighter, and use Magical Knack (cleric) to keep your CL up for your scaling buffs (starting at 6th level, you'll really be liking divine favor).
For stats, you might consider a dual-talented human (if you have the ARG) and putting your racial mods into STR and DEX. Maybe something like this:
STR 18 (16+2)
DEX 16 (14+2)
CON 12
INT 08
WIS 14
CHA 10
Consider taking Toughness to make up for your middling CON.
The WIS might look low for a cleric, but if you're running around with your hands full you're not casting spells in combat - which means you're proactively casting a buff spell (or two) before combat (or in the first round) and then drawing your weapons and beating face. Since buffs don't involve saves (and neither do cures, condition removal, or other spells you might actually cast as a melee cleric) a high WIS isn't that important.
So you could take your first level in cleric, taking Toughness as your first feat (13HP if FCB is in HP). Then take a level of fighter for TWF, then back to cleric for a while. If you keep it to only a one-level dip into fighter, you're still progressing your spells as fast as a sorcerer, so not too shabby. Third level you could take Weapon Focus to keep your to-hit up if you like.
Oh, and if your deity allows it, take the Heroism subdomain of Glory. One casting of heroism out of the domain slot will often last most of your encounters (i.e., cast it at the front door of the dungeon), and is +2 to attacks and saves and skills (and stacks with divine favor).
Hope that helps!
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I would suggest playing a fighter. You really don't want to multi-class. Its fun and cool for 'you' but gets really old around the gaming table when you have a multi-class PC who can't do fighting or healing very well. Also, multi-class PCs generally are only fun for people who play them, everyone else thinks they're a drag on the party, since they don't bring 'it,' in any significant way to the party.
I'd fixate on one and make that the best PC ever. And a cleric who's dual wielding, isn't really a cleric, because you want to play a combat expert. So, when you tell your party you're playing a cleric, they'll be expecting heals of that level and when you don't provide them, you'll be ticking off everyone at the table because you'll have misrepresented your PC.
You want to play a melee PC, just play a fighter and there will be no confusion and no one will expect you to heal and someone else will step up and play a cleric.
This is all MY OPINION and should be taken as such but it is something you may wish to consider.
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Is the mini a human or a dwarf? Torag is almost exclusively a dwarven god; while clerics of him do exist, they are few and far between.
A dwarf ranger with light hammers could be statted out like so:
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8
He would be able to take Two-Weapon Fighting at first level, and therefore get Double Slice at level 2. From then on, he would need no higher Dexterity than that, and you could focus exclusively on pumping strength. Favoured enemy would provide damage.
An urban ranger can definitely be reflavoured as cleric-lite.
I would suggest playing a fighter. You really don't want to multi-class. Its fun for you but gets really old around the gaming table when you have a multi-class PC who can't do fighting or healing very well.
I'd fixate on one and make that the best PC ever. And a cleric who's dual wielding, isn't really a cleric, because you want to play a combat expert. So, when you tell your party you're playing a cleric, they'll be expecting heals of that level and when you don't provide them, you'll be ticking off everyone at the table because you'll have misrepresented your PC.
You want to play a melee PC, just play a fighter and there will be no confusion and no one will expect you to heal and someone else will step up and play a cleric.
Multiclassing does not mean building a bad PC. I'm sure you've got some horror stories, but I've seen some great multiclass combinations. When multiclassing, you need to be aware of what you're gaining and what you're giving up.
Secondly, saying "I'm a cleric" shouldn't include the automatic assumption of "I'm a healer". That's a very old mindset, and one that is frequently incorrect. Don't set yourself up for disappointment and bring your own healing.
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Multiclassing does not mean building a bad PC. I'm sure you've got some horror stories, but I've seen some great multiclass combinations. When multiclassing, you need to be aware of what you're gaining and what you're giving up.
Secondly, saying "I'm a cleric" shouldn't include the automatic assumption of "I'm a healer". That's a very old mindset, and one that is frequently incorrect. Don't set yourself up for disappointment and bring your own healing.
I totally agree. However, when people on Warhorn click on Cleric as their PC, other people assume they will be playing a (Healer) Cleric.
Right or wrong, that's what people assume. And when you show up and don't heal, you'll get dirty looks for 4 hours. So, when I play a battle Cleric and I have to give my class, I say, I'm playing a 'fighter' that way there's no expectation that I'll heal anyone. Also, the player who looks at the list and sees no healers will look at his PC list and say, I guess I should play my (Heal) Cleric.
To me its more important to be honest than to be right. And if I tell people I'm playing a cleric (and I don't heal) I'm technically correct and I'm also being dishonest.
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I would suggest playing a fighter. You really don't want to multi-class. Its fun and cool for 'you' but gets really old around the gaming table when you have a multi-class PC who can't do fighting or healing very well. Also, multi-class PCs generally are only fun for people who play them, everyone else things they're a drag on the party, since they don't bring 'it,' in any significant way to the party.
Just because you haven't seen a successful multiclassed PC doesn't mean it can't be done. It just takes a higher level of system mastery to build something unique and powerful from the ground up than to take a base class off the shelf and menu-select basic character options.
I'd fixate on one and make that the best PC ever. And a cleric who's dual wielding, isn't really a cleric, because you want to play a combat expert. So, when you tell your party you're playing a cleric, they'll be expecting heals of that level and when you don't provide them, you'll be ticking off everyone at the table because you'll have misrepresented your PC.
Hearing "I'm a cleric" and assuming "He's a healer" is like hearing "I'm a ranger" and assuming "He's an archer". It's a small understanding of the game on the listener's part, not a misrepresentation on the speaker's part.
Also, most people are capable of saying more than 3 words when introducing their PCs, which is helpful in cutting down on misunderstandings.
You want to play a melee PC, just play a fighter and there will be no confusion and no one will expect you to heal and someone else will step up and play a cleric.
I play both a Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight and a melee Cleric, both with great success. No one's had a problem with them yet.
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not sure if I would take the 16 STR... Off hand damage is half, and so you would get almost as much out of a 14 STR. If I went all the way to 16, I think I'd go ahead and push it up to an 18. But that's just me.
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otherwise I agree with Adam! he gives good advice! (even the STR thing is just my opinion)...
The 16 Strength is so we can eventually get it to 18. I would go with a progression that looks like this:
1 Two-Weapon Fighting
2 Double Slice <---- Now the 16 Strength means something for the off-hand
3 Weapon Focus (light hammer)
4
5 Quick-Draw <---- Now you can throw them too!
6 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Eric, I don't think I've ever experienced what you're talking about, but I'm sorry that you have. However, that won't stop me from telling people that I am a priest of such-and-such, and then letting them make their own inquiries about whether they can expect a lot, a little, or any healing.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I totally agree. However, when people on Warhorn click on Cleric as their PC, other people assume they will be playing a (Healer) Cleric.
Right or wrong, that's what people assume. And when you show up and don't heal, you'll get dirty looks for 4 hours. So, when I play a battle Cleric and I have to give my class, I say, I'm playing a 'fighter' that way there's no expectation that I'll heal anyone. Also, the player who looks at the list and sees no healers will look at his PC list and say, I guess I should play my (Heal) Cleric.
To me its more important to be honest than to be right. And if I tell people I'm playing a cleric (and I don't heal) I'm technically correct and I'm also being dishonest.
Wow. Sounds like Warhorn sucks. Can people not type in a line about their PC? What do you do if you're an archer? A summon-focused wizard? An archaeologist bard?
And can tables not muster at the venue? Do people not talk to each other once they're there?
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I totally agree. However, when people on Warhorn click on Cleric as their PC, other people assume they will be playing a (Healer) Cleric.
Right or wrong, that's what people assume. And when you show up and don't heal, you'll get dirty looks for 4 hours. So, when I play a battle Cleric and I have to give my class, I say, I'm playing a 'fighter' that way there's no expectation that I'll heal anyone. Also, the player who looks at the list and sees no healers will look at his PC list and say, I guess I should play my (Heal) Cleric.
To me its more important to be honest than to be right. And if I tell people I'm playing a cleric (and I don't heal) I'm technically correct and I'm also being dishonest.
Wow. Sounds like Warhorn sucks. Can people not type in a line about their PC? What do you do if you're an archer? A summon-focused wizard? An archaeologist bard?
And can tables not muster at the venue? Do people not talk to each other once they're there?
You can but it doesn't translate that well on Warhorn. And once they are there, if they didn't bring their (Healer) sheet, everyone is out of luck.
I'm just pointing out why a player might want to be weary of 'misrepresenting' what he's playing. As I say, better to be honest and not get anyone's hopes up than to be 'technically right' but having everyone at the table be simmering with anger, directed at you. I've heard of horror stories where a group who never played together had a cleric sign up and then he didn't heal. The party almost TPKed because he wasn't being honest and some of the other players I spoke to later on said "If he'd just told us that he's not a healer, I'd have played mine and there would have been no problems and no one would have been POed at him."
Now those same players, refuse to play with that player because of his 'dishonesty' and who loses out? Everyone, because he might be a great battle cleric but his refusal to be 'honest' won't allow him to shine as, a what I'm sure is a great, battle cleric because he won't get a second chance after the party almost TPKed.
So I quote the old saying that was told to me at work by a co-worker who I thought was nuts, when he said this. "Do you want to be right? Or do you want to succeed?"
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Warhorn has its upsides and its downsides. It does allow for quick advance mustering if there's no better tool. I'm pretty happy that Ontario has a better tool though.
/shameless website plug
Anyway, getting back on-topic!
Going pure fighter will not necessarily leave you gimped in damage; however, it's an uphill battle.
Here's a human fighter (two-weapon warrior archetype) who will be using two light hammers. You could go for two warhammers, but you'll be absolutely swamped with attack penalties until you get to level 11.
Str 17, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 9
1 Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (light hammer)
2 Double Slice
3 Power Attack
4 Weapon Specialization (light hammer), Str +1
5 Quick-Draw
6 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (At some point before this, you need a belt of incredible dexterity)
At level 6 we've got an 18 Strength with likely two +1 weapons for +11/+11/+6/+6 (1d4+8) each; Power Attack brings the main hand up to 1d4+12 and the off-hand to 1d4+10. Furthermore, with Quick-Draw, if you come across some form of damage reduction, then switch to your cold iron set of hammers. If those don't work, switch to your silver ones. And if you're really not sure but want to land at least one hit, then use a silver in one hand and a cold iron in the other.
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Thanks for all the input so far guys, it's a great deal of help. When I get home, I'll dive into a couple of books too.
As far as the mini itself, its a human. Specifically, its the Forge World event exclusive warrior priest I picked up at Origins. Arm and a leg sure, but when you really enjoy the painting, its worth it sometimes!
not sure if I would take the 16 STR... Off hand damage is half, and so you would get almost as much out of a 14 STR. If I went all the way to 16, I think I'd go ahead and push it up to an 18. But that's just me.
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otherwise I agree with Adam! he gives good advice! (even the STR thing is just my opinion)...
TWF builds are better if you push strength. You should only get enough dex to qualify for the feats. 17 Dex(this does not have to be done at level 1) should be enough IIRC.
You take double slice to get your full strength bonus to the offhand weapon.