I have been searching around for an answer to questions on a build
I am working on a build for a character that uses:
7 Two-Handed Fighter
2 Urban Barbarian
4 Internal Alchemist, Vivisectionist
First off is this build PFS Legal. My only real concern is that the two Alchemist Archetypes may not be usable together.
Second as I will eventually have 4 arms... Would I be able to dual wield Great Swords using Two-Weapon Fighting Feats?
Lastly would these feats work with the Two-Handed Fighter abilities like Back Swing?
@BigNorseWolf: Where can I find the RAI on that?
@Todd Morgan: I was actually considering dropping Barbarian altogether as having the bonus feats from fighter would allow me to have THF and TWF feats galore to take advantage of both of them.
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IMHO ragechemist is a very bad idea. In exchange for +2 Str, you get an escalating penalty to your weakest save and to a stat that isn't likely to be very high. Assuming a 14 Int, you only need to fail 7 will saves, which as a front-line fighter you will likely have to make almost every round (suffering a cumulative -2 penalty for each one you fail), to be reduced to a vegetable.
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The 2-handed fighter abilities work RAW. Just remember that your TWF penalty will be -4, though if you delay the alchemist levels until later in your career, this will be less of an issue.
One last point: as BigNorseWolf said, expect table variation, and have a backup plan if a GM has an issue (i.e. use 2 hands for a Greatsword, one hand for a shield, and leave one free to throw javelins). It's far better to be prepared to compromise than to get into a rules debate that disrupts the entire table.
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Or if you want to wield dual greatswords, you can always take a glance at the Titan Mauler Barbarian Archetype. At Level 2, you gain Jotungrip, which let you hold a Greatsword at a -2 (does not include TWF penalties yet).
However what creative build you want to do, you can do. Just remember to reference to the Additional Resources page to see what is legal or not in PFS, like the Vivisectionist is not legal.
For cross-building Archetypes, you can do it as long as nothing conflicts in replacing the standard features of the class. So for example, if two Archetypes of a Fighter says that they replace Bravery, they can not be used together. Even if everything else can be replaced, if a single feature conflicts, it is an invalid mix.
To answer your last question, sans Vivisectionist, If you have enough hands to swing it as a 2-H weapon, I believe that Backswing will apply.
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I agree that Rage Chemist is a bad idea. Having played with one, I've seen that any scenario you play him in can have two outcomes:
1: You absolutely crush all opposition in combat, and everyone else at the table wonders why they bothered showing up.
2: You fall unconscious due to Intelligence penalties in the second combat, then spend the rest of the scenario watching other people roll dice. If that combat was in the water, you might be dead.
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I agree that Rage Chemist is a bad idea. Having played with one, I've seen that any scenario you play him in can have two outcomes:
1: You absolutely crush all opposition in combat, and everyone else at the table wonders why they bothered showing up.
2: You fall unconscious due to Intelligence penalties in the second combat, then spend the rest of the scenario watching other people roll dice. If that combat was in the water, you might be dead.
And the proportion of outcome 2 to outcome 1 increases dramatically with every tier you climb.
EDIT
Also, Titan Mauler wouldn't permit the perks from Two-Handed Fighter, as the wording of Jotungrip specifies that the weapon is treated as a one-handed weapon.
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I second the few people above that mention shying away from this idea. Too much table variation is NEVER fun. You are always wondering if the GM you will have that night will let you play your character as you thought it worked (good or bad, that's a different story), or some other random way.
Here is my suggestion for a fun TWF build for PFS:
TWF archetype for Fighter. Go Tengu for Swordtrained. Now you can wield a bastard sword in one hand (avg damage of 5.5, not bad) and a Sawtooth Sabre in your offhand (counts as light if you are proficient with it which you are thanks to swordtrained).
Go weapon focus and w. spec in bastard sword.
At level 9, the archetype will let you use a second bastard sword in your offhand, which will kick in all the focus and spec feats for it as well.
You will also be pure Fighter, which will let you do much more fun feat tricks like snagging Step Up and Following Step, or Disruptive to really screw with casters.
If you absolutely have to dual wield, I might suggest nabbing sawtooth sabers. They are exotic one handed weapons that are treated as light for the purposes of dual wielding, but one handed for all other purposes.. You could then wield it in two hands for the perks of wielding things in two hands, but that would be two feats down the drain if a DM denies you your class feature(which hopefully wouldn't happen.) As an additional perk, you can wield a sawtooth sabres can be wielded like longswords if you don't have the exotic proficiency.
You only need two levels in alchemist, you can nab the other arm with extra discovery(if you want to rush into the other classes anyway). There are a few other melee friendly-ish alchemist archetypes to look into, grenadier for example.
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I don't recommend the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype. All the benefits are restricted to "when you make a full attack with two weapons". It takes away armor and weapon training, which you always get the benefit of, and makes it completely situational. (I built a dual wielder based on TWW, and I've regretted it.) The only real benefit comes at level 9, and if you multi-class in PFS, your odds of reaching level 9 TWW are slim.
I second the recommendation for sawtooth sabres. Having the same weapon in each hand lets weapon training, weapon focus, and weapon specialization apply to both hands equally. And 1d8 weapons go up to 2d6 with enlarge person or lead blades, so it's almost as good as dual-wielding great swords. :-)
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I don't recommend the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype. All the benefits are restricted to "when you make a full attack with two weapons". It takes away armor and weapon training, which you always get the benefit of, and makes it completely situational.
If the situation you mean is "taking full attacks" then yes. That is kinda the whole point of playing a TWF character. Which is why I recommended feats like Step up/Following Step so you can always try to move to enemies faster and get those full attacks in.
Loss of armor training is not that big deal, with your dex you probably want mithral breastplate or celestial armor as it is.
But I agree, if you decide going straight into double-sawtooth sabres (or any 2x of the same weapon) then probably Weapon Master is better. But if you want to go for the double "big bad boys" (i.e. bastard swords in both hands) then the TWF archetype is the way to go. But yes, it blooms at lvl 9, and only if you straight-class it.
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I don't recommend the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype. All the benefits are restricted to "when you make a full attack with two weapons". It takes away armor and weapon training, which you always get the benefit of, and makes it completely situational.If the situation you mean is "taking full attacks" then yes. That is kinda the whole point of playing a TWF character. Which is why I recommended feats like Step up/Following Step so you can always try to move to enemies faster and get those full attacks in.
Oh, I agree that the point of TWF is to get those full attacks, certainly. But trading weapon training--which is + 1 to hit and damage with your weapon group, all the time, no matter what--for +1 to hit and damage only when you get a full attack in is pointless unless you plan to use weapons from multiple groups at all times (which I've not yet seen a TWF do, by the way). The "Defensive flurry" only applies when you get a full attack, compared to Two Weapon Defense (feat) which only requires that you are wielding two weapon, regardless of what you do with them. Bookkeeping during combat is also a bit tricky. :-)
For an adventure path or home game or starting at high levels, level 9 TWW is sweet. For the typical PFS character who stops around level 12, it's not worth the trade off. If you multiclass a PFS character more than 2 levels, TWW becomes pointless.
But if you want to go for the double "big bad boys" (i.e. bastard swords in both hands) then the TWF archetype is the way to go. But yes, it blooms at lvl 9, and only if you straight-class it.
For bastard sword in each hand, I'd go Monk (any archetype that doesn't trade flurry) and dip one level Cleric of Ragathiel (favored weapon bastard sword).
L1: Monk (any archetype that keeps flurry of blows): take Power Attack as Character feat
L2: Cleric (Crusader) of Ragathiel. Exotic WP: Bastard Sword (free), Weapon focus: Bastard sword (bonus feat)
L3: [Any class]: Character feat Crusader's Flurry (flurry with your deity's favored weapon)
From level 3 on, you can flurry with twin bastard swords, take no strength penalties to your off hand, and get full Power Attack bonus on all attacks. Of course, you have to be a monk and a lawful good cleric, but all good things come at a price.
I don't believe you can combine flurry and two weapon fighting.
You can use two weapons with a flurry, but there isn't much of a point when you can do it with one. You can also choose any deity, but you have to decide based on the deity's favored weapon if your optimizing.
You also would still take the -2 for flurrying, and you would take an additional -1 for the dip in a game without fractional BAB.
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I don't believe you can combine flurry and two weapon fighting.You can use two weapons with a flurry, but there isn't much of a point when you can do it with one. You can also choose any deity, but you have to decide based on the deity's favored weapon if your optimizing.
You also would still take the -2 for flurrying, and you would take an additional -1 for the dip in a game without fractional BAB.
It's flavor. Also, it allows you to have different weapon qualities at higher levels (say, flaming in one hand and cold in another, or keen and ominous, etc.).
The flurry vs. TWF calculation comes down to style, really.
If you're Dex based, TWF is probably the way to go: TWF requires 15 Dex, 17 for Improved TWF. In this case, your "optimized" choice is probably the same light weapon in each hand so you can apply weapon focus and specialization to both weapons. (I don't think Agile weapons take the off-hand damage penalty, but I'll have to double-check that.)
If you're Str based, flurry saves you the Double Slice feat (to counter the half Str on your off hand) and lets you get full Power Attack on each hand. And flurry has no minimum Dex requirement.
It's true you lose the BAB for the cleric dip, but if the goal is to wield twin bastard swords as soon as possible, that's the quickest path. If the goal is to wield twin bastard swords as effectively as possible regardless of how long it takes, then 9 levels of TWW is probably a better bet.
I always thought the difference was your character build/class features. Not a big fan of making too many dips myself, particularly monk when the first idea was a barbarian/vivisectionist.
I should note titan mauler is very punishing for dual wielding. -4 for one handed weapon in each hand and -2 for inappropriately sized weapon. That'll make it pretty hard to hit, and its not really worth the trade for a little bit of extra damage dice. Just describe your weapons as big and scary maybe? Not sure if that is against reskinning.
Another thing is that fighter doesn't scale much. Main class feature is feats, and mithral armor and a few magical items happen to give some of his bonuses. I'm not sure if it would be smarter to drop barbarian entirely for the fighter, unless you have a great idea of what feats you really need.
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Ahh this reminds me of a post I made months ago concerning Dual-Wielding Nodachi's on a Barbarian/Ninja/Alchemist build. Good times...
The two post's I had on the subject if you want to see what we got was
Dual Wielding Nodachi with Obscene number of Attacks and High Strength
and
WITH THE VESTIGAL ARMS DISCOVERY CAN YOU DUAL WIELD TWO-HANDED WEAPONS?
I am not sure how to post links but if you search them you will find quite a bit of info on the subject.