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I'm GMing RotRLAE and just recruited a new player. He joined us for a short one-shot adventure yesterday and now he wants to join our group permanently. He has absolutely ZERO experience with Pen and Paper RPGs.
Here's the deal: He wants to play a heavily armored dwarf with two weapons. The group so far is already somewhat melee heavy but he should fit in well enough.
Rules: 20-point-buy, no free traits, standard WBL, only Core and APG (but since I'm the GM, anything Pathfinder might be allowed). The Group is currently level 5.
I want to help him with his character but I'm not sure what to do with such a concept. Two options spring to mind: 2WF-Ranger with heavy armor proficiency or a fighter (most likely 2weapon archetype). Ranger obviously has the advantage of ignoring the requirements. Fighter would need 15 Dex right away and either waste points on level up or rely on magic items for the higher requirements of later feats. I think at least 17 Dex for Improved TWF should be reached as soon as possible. But full plate and high dex don't mix too well unless you have mithral (high cost) or armor training which the two-weapon fighter archetype loses.
So... any good ideas?
First of all I'd go for mobile fighter or dawnflower dervish archetype if you pick fighter.
Ranger could be nice as well and dwarf kinda fits. Get boon companion and I think you'll do pretty good!
Full Plate is best used with a fighter that can lower the ACP to nil, but ranger is a dwarf's go-to class for TWF. The Two-Weapon Warrior archetype doesn't mix well with fullplate, since you loose out on armor training.
IMO, I'd try to persuade him that dwarves tend to use two-handed weapons instead of two weapons, and introduce him to the destructive power that is power attack :) The Dwarven Longaxe or Longhammer would work nicely.
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Des it have to be two weapons? Can one be spiked armor?
[spoiler=Dwarf McSpikeybeard]
Level 5 Fighter no archetype
Str 15 +1
Dex15
Con 14 +2
Int 10
Wis 12+2
Cha 9 -2
Stats can be fiddled with. I suggest dropping cha and int some more to boost Str. Make sure to make a dex belt available within the next few levels to meet the prereqs forimp TWF.
Now, there's two approaches to this. One is to use a 2H and spiked armor. This is generally optimal damage, but I find it's better for a ranger in a spiked breastplate since rangers can't do heavy armor, they lose most of their abilities.. Fighters get too many good bonuses to single weapon types to ignore.
Feats:
1:TWF, WF Kukri
2: Steel Soul (cause fighters need the saves, this makes him +4 vs spells)
3: Power Attack
4: Weapon Spec: Kukri
5: Double slice (for a new player, it's easier to not have to keep track of off-hand main-hand attacks. I suggest houseruing Double strike so it works on power attack too)
Weapon Training: Light Blades
Attack Stats:
+8/+8 1d4 +6 (power attack for -2 +4)
AC: 21- +9 +2
Saves: +4 vs. magic
Fort-7
Ref-3
Will-3
Priorities: cloak of resistance, magic armor, magic weapons, dex belt.
If he does not mind sword and board TWF, even though it will cost more feats I would go that route.
Enhancing the weapon side of the shield will eventually cost less, and he still have have a decent AC until he gets mithral.
Start him off with a light shield, and once he gets the feat that ignores the TWF penalty to the shield he can sell it for a heavy one..
Unless you are in a low wealth game he should be able to handle the TWF dex requirements.
I would not go with the TWF archetype. I would use the normal fighter.
If he does not want to go sword and board then the weapon master archetype works. Even though TWF needs dex I would only get enough dex to qualify for the feats. He will do more damage by focusing on strength.
F=fighter bonus feat
1 Steel Soul
1F TWF
2F Double slice
3 Power Attack(comes in handy for monsters with DR that he can't bypas and for times when he can't full attack.)
4F EWP(Two bladed sword) Other weapons may fit, but they should be able to be used in two hands to take advantage of power attack.
5 Iron Will
Str 16 (14+2 belt to boost strength)
Dex 17 (16+1 level 4 ability score increase) <--He now qualifies for ITWF.
Con 16 (14+2 racial bonus from dwarf)
Int 10
Wis 14 (12+2 racial bonus from dwarf)
Cha 6 (8-2 racial penalty from dwarf)
You can't wear heavy armor and use Ranger Combat Style, so the only way Ranger TWF works with full plate is if it's mithral full plate, since the mithral makes it count as medium. Something to bear in mind when choosing class.
I'm playing a dwarf fighter/ranger who does a TWF weapon-and-shield bash style and it works just fine. But my build sort of took place "as the campaign demanded it" so it's not honestly well planned out -- but that means if you plan for it to go that way, it will probably even work better.
First, what I'd do is ask the player to read over the classes and ask him what he'd like to play. Players are new and need guidance but they also should be allowed to hold the wheel when driving through character creation--it's part of the learning process. Maybe he will even notice a factor you haven't thought of--new players are like that as they are seeing the game with new eyes.
That said, FOR advice, when and if it's solicited:
I'd go with straight up fighter if I can -- IMO, straight up fighters are the best TWFers (better than the archetype) because they get all those extra bonuses to hit from weapon training and indeed CAN wear full plate without losing abilities, and they train the style the fastest because they can do it from level one and round it out very quickly because of all those bonus feats. Yes, it does mean you are going to have to train Dexterity. The nice thing about Dwarf though is that you don't have to worry about plugging in quite as many Constitution points in though, as they will get their racial bonus. If you're not worried about skills, I would also do favored class for hit points and then that way you also further have more to put into Strength and Dexterity. I would start off with Strength 14-16 and Dexterity as high as you want to go to qualify for the Improved/Greater TWF (I don't see much point in Greater myself as by the time you hit that point you've already got iterative attacks on top of your extra attacks and the one extra attack that only might sometimes go off seems like a waste of a feat). If Dex is much higher than Str, you can go weapon finesse; you want a decent Str but don't worry about Str being stupidly high as you're getting extra damage from extra attacks coupled with your weapon training bonuses, etc. (Don't dump Strength, of course though--I'm just saying you don't need a 22 Strength or whatever.)
And once again, don't bother with the archetype, it's a trap. Way back when the APG came out, someone did the math and showed how a non archetype fighter could be a much more effective TWFer than the two weapon fighter archetype--the to hit bonus gained is too circumstantial, the loss of armor training isn't worth it, and the special abilities gained are meh and circumstantial.
@all: Thanks for the advice so far!
@Deathquaker: Thanks for pointing out that combat styles don't work with heavy armor. I'm not really a martial character player myself and was unaware of that restriction.
Unfortunately I didn't have time to talk to him about his character much yesterday. I'm positive that he wants a second weapon, not a shield or armor spikes.
I was leaning towards the two weapon archetype because I don't know how he'd feel about using a light weapon in his off-hand. I kinda got the feeling he'd prefer a big axe in each hand. Might be wrong about that one, though. If he is fine with two light weapons (kukris or handaxes or something) the archetype loses appeal fast and vanilla fighter might in fact be better.
Also, since the AP is ROtRL, I'm not to concerned about his AC as a dwarf.
Edit: The Urgosh might be another thing to consider. Thanks!
If he could see himself using hammer + shield he could go thunder and fang and use a twohanded hammer (earthbreaker) and spiked shield (klar) together. A nice archetype for this is the viking fighter.
Doesn't get armor training but apart from that it seems nice.
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Fighter.
STR 16, DEX 15, CON 15, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 8
LEVEL 1
FEATS - Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus Dwarven Maul Axe
ATTACKS - Full Attack +3/+3, (1d6+3, 1d6+1 B and P)
Moving Attack +5 1d6+3
LEVEL 2
FEAT - Double Slice
ATTACKS - Full Attack +4/+4, (1d6+3, 1d6+3 B and P)
Moving +6 1d6+3
LEVEL 3
FEAT - Two Weapon Defense
ATTACKS - Full +5/+5, (1d6+3, 1d6+3)
+7 1d6+3
LEVEL 4 +1 CON
FEAT - Weapon Specialization
ATTACKS +6/+6 (1d6+5); +8 1d6+5
LEVEL 5 Weapon Training Light Weapons
FEAT - Power Attack
ATTACKS +8/+8 (1d6+6); +10 1d6+6; PA +6/+6 1d6+10; +7 1d6+10
LEVEL 6 - You should have a Belt of Physical Might +2 STR/DEX by now
FEAT - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
ATTACKS +10/+10/+5/+5 1d6+7; +12 1d6+7; PA +8/+8/+3/+3 1d6+11
LEVEL 7 -
FEAT - Steel Soul
ATTACKS +11/+11/+6/+6, 1d6+7; +13 1d6+7 you get the point by now.
LEVEL 8
FEAT - Greater Weapon Focus
Attacks +13/+13/+8/+8 1d6+7;
LEVEL 9 Weapon Training 2 - Add ranged to this
FEAT - Opening Volley
LEVEL 10
FEAT - Deadly Aim
LEVEL 11 - YOu should have a Belt of Physical Might +4
FEAT - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
+18/+18/+ 13/+13/+8/+8 1d6+8
LEVEL 12
FEAT - Two Weapon Rend
LEVEL 13
FEAT Greater WEapon specialization
So we're now at
+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10 for a full attack
Damage is 1d6+10, if a primary and a secondary hit deal an additional 1d10+7 damage
If you get really crazy at 14 take hammer the gap and you're dealing an additional +15 damage if all of your attacks hit. A few enchantments on your weapon and you're just nasty in a full round, though you're sort of lacking in your non full attacks.
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Good suggestions above. If I were doing it I would go full fighter and make sure I pick up steel soul at 1st level, because +4 on saves against spells and spell like abilities is ridiculously good and as a fighter you have enough feats.
Also, consider perhaps the dwarven double Waraxe unless you are absolutely married to the actually wielding two separate weapons concept. This will let you two-hand on single attacks and two when you get full attacks.
P33J hit pretty much on how I would go conceptually, maybe moving a few things around to earlier or later (I really like steel soul, so I may get that sooner and if I were using a double weapon I would get power attack earlier)