While I'm not concerned with a totally optimized character, I'm curious if people think this build will work alright, or if its going to struggle in a reasonably powerful group. The concept is a sort of sage-warrior / yamabushi cleric:
Monk (Sohei) / Cleric of Shizuru (Evangelist, Scroll Scholar): Heroism
Human (Dual Talent)
Traits: Magical Knack, Reactionary
STR 16 = 14+2
DEX 12
CON 14 (+favored hp)
INT 12
WIS 18 = 16+2 (+levels)
CHA 7
1 (Sohei) - *Dodge / Crane Style
3 - Weapon Focus: Katana
5 - Crusader's Flurry: Katana
7 - Power Attack
9 - Channel Smite
11 - Guided Hand
13 - Crane Wing
15 - Crane Riposte
The idea is that between cleric, evangelist and heroism domain I can self/party buff fairly quickly and extensively, then use some of that extra ab to power attack and flurry for decent damage. By the time wisdom starts really leaving strength behind, guided hand comes in. Crane style is there to make fighting defensively useful when needed, rather than as something to run all the time, at least until riposte. High wisdom spell casting as an option, but not a focus.
I should have explicitly stated its unarmored, using monk's wisdom-to-ac bonus, which shield would negate. I forgot that people argue for sohei using armored flurry, that wasn't actually my intent... oops. Acrobatics is definitely on the program.
From what my friend - who is my link to the group I'd be joining - said, they're pretty open to a wide range of sources, though I'd generally prefer not to range too much beyond the standard books - APG, Ultimates and such. Race is also something I'm trying not to go outlandish on. I could take Oread for STR + WIS but I'd rather play it human, or maybe variant heritage aasimar (emphasis human side) if something fit. They're fairly casual and I'd be new to them, so I don't want to walk in with a really byzantine wish list, though the odd special thing probably wouldn't be verboten. Sorry if I'm being ambiguous, it doesn't make it easier I know...
What do you plan on being your Monk/Cleric ratio?
Sensei or Master of Many Styles for a lower Monk levels.
Crusader Cleric for lower Cleric levels.
Sorry, I guess I should've taken a little more care putting the build up there - the first level is Monk (only took Sohei archetype for the 'devoted guardian' ability), then it goes full Cleric. The single level of monk is there just to provide AC to wisdom, give unarmed, and allow an extra attack by flurry (only one, but having an extra full-ab attack seems worth it for -1ab since I'm already unarmored). Cleric casting/abilities and evangelist performance are the focus, since I want to get to the point where I can use aura of heroism, inspire courage and a spell as swift/move/standard. I know that without going up monk levels I don't get any free monk AC (except from a monk's robe), but on the other hand I can pump wisdom like mad.
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Well, your Flurry will never advance, and extra attacks from BAB will eventually outnumber the Flurry attacks.
MoMS will give you more, and better feats.
Also, you can nab a Guided Katana later.
The MoMS is definitely tempting - not only for more style feats, but for crossing in a single level of snake or monkey or ... lots of good stuff.
I dismissed flurry at first because it would never grow, but when I stopped thinking of it as a sadly stunted ability and started thinking of it as extra, stacking haste I really wanted it. I guess maybe the slice-n-dice katana work got me on a flavor level too... guess I'll mull it over again.
Good point about the guided katana - if I need better feat compression to compete I'll definitely go that route, even if I'm kind of a purist at heart about fundamental character properties coming from items.
Anyhow, thanks for the input!
extra attacks from BAB will eventually outnumber the Flurry attacks.
Oh wait... are you saying using flurry would prevent "main-hand" extra attacks? I thought it would simply function like having a character with only two-weapon fighting feat and no others. If it kills off my usual iterative attacks then yeah, no good.
Absolutely no disrespect intended, flurry losing bab iterative attacks seemed wrong to me, and I tried to look it up...
I'll be damned if I can look up anything monk on pathfinder that doesn't result in a contorted rules controversy from poorly written text. The best part of it was where SKR popped in to a thread debating iteratives to direct people to look at the faq... that answered what the bab was for a multiclassed monk, but mentioned nothing about iteratives. Oh well. Guess I'll just ask the gm if he'll do it the old 3.5 way, and take MoMs if not. Or maybe a single level of Maneuver Master, just to throw some free dirty trick attempts. Can I do that? Wait, no, forget I asked.
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An idea I had awhile back; never got around to playing it. Substitute deity/weapon to taste.
STR:14
DEX:14
CON:14
INT:07 human, takes extra skill point/level
WIS+17
CHA:12
traits:birthmark, dangerously curious
01 cler1 00 [Crusader][Shelyn:Charm][Weapon Focus:Glaive], 1st, Channel Smite, Guided Hand
02 monk1 00 [Hungry Ghost][Punishing Kick], WIS>AC
03 cler2 01 Crusader's Flurry
04 cler3 02 2nd, WIS>20
05 cler4 03 Power Attack
06 cler5 03 [Martial Weapon Proficiency:Longbow], 3rd
07 cler6 04 Empower Spell
08 cler7 05 4th
09 cler8 06 Improved Initiative
10 cler9 06 5th
11 cle10 07 [Greater Weapon Focus:Glaive], Quicken Spell
12 cle11 08
Skills: Perception, Use Magic Device, Sense Motive, Diplomacy
Flurry stacks with BAB from other classes.
When you have Flurry and then multiclass you add BAB from other classes to your Flurry BAB.
So a Monk 4/Cleric 6 would get 3 attacks while flurrying.2 from BAB(4Monk+4 Cleric) and 1 extra.You don't get additional Flurry attacks until level 8 of monk but you always get more than with regular Full Attack.
Its a question of whether the BAB actually grants extra attacks when using the 'Flurry' ability. From what I've seen its ambiguous enough that people can reasonably read it both ways; only the conversion kit explicitly seems to state that you keep extra attacks, but the core rulebook kind of implies otherwise.
Don't get me wrong, I like pathfinder, I even endorse it commercially in the small way I can (the place I work has very little PnP market), but I really hope they go for a little more clarity in the future. I don't know what was wrong with 'at X level you get an extra attack.'
Katana seems to be his main focus, and I think key for him.
Perceptive in the ways of the sword-sage, you are. I don't have any particular katana fetish - I actually tend to avoid the whole 'katana-cult' thing on principle - but it was that or sarenrae scimitar, and that's less not boring. The actual flavor is really more non-deity, so it works better with an exotic 'patron' who can be acknowledged but left in the background.
How are you going to react to people refusing to serve you in taverns, or folks throwing dung at you in the streets?
How heroic is it to have that low of a CHA? Why would you ever even be a Adventuer with the personality of a wet dishrag?
Come on, if you have a dump a stat to 7, then your build is poor. Start with a 17 Wis and bump it @ 4th.
I didn't think a CHA of 7 was apocalyptic... I mean, what's the average dwarf? I'm not really a dump-stat type unless its part of the character flavor, and this character is intended to be a hermitic sage type who is unused to much social contact and disconnected from regular social concerns. If the gm reacts as badly to it as you do, sure, I'll just level it out a little more. I actually considered starting at 7 and then at some point bumping to 8 when social contact started to help him pull his head out, as it were, socially.
Being a "loner" does not mean you have a low CHA. A Loner certainly has a strong personality and sense of self-worth. True, a loner may not have a high CHA. Let me put it another way. If you think that there's some way to be cool with a low CHA, then it's wrong.
In theory, no-one in Golarion has a stat less than 8, unless it's racial or a special NPC.
It's just cheesy. Start at 10, with a Wis of 17.
Being a "loner" does not mean you have a low CHA.
Ah, the old highly aggregate and abstract ability scores debate... its true, I should be careful with it. In my own experience (which has been fairly minimal lately, sadly) people treated charisma as primarily a social ability / outgoing personality indicator rather than a statement of self-worth. In point of fact, the character isn't meant to be 'cool' - he's grumpy, detached, socially awkward, and a little condescending about it.
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.
When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability).
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
I really don't see any ambiguity here. You make your regular attacks and you get additional attacks as if using TWF. Your Monk level determines how many additional attacks you get as Improved TWF and Greater TWF.
The focus word here is additional as in,"in addition to your regular attacks".
The ambiguity comes from whether flurry of blows IS a normal full attack action, or whether its a special class ability that, regardless of bab, grants extra attacks on its own schedule. As a gm, I would agree with what you're saying.
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I'm not a fan of the Crane style chain in a cleric build: 1) your cleric BAB really hurts your offense when combined with defensive fighting, and 2) you're giving up shield use (kiss goodbye the extra AC which would probably make more attacks miss you than Riposte does), and could just cast a Heightened Sanctuary as a near-full-level cleric if you really want to avoid trouble.