Can I Divine Bond with a Light Lance created by the spell Light Lance?


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

As a level 8 Paladin, if I cast Light Lance (APG231) to create a +1 Holy Lance made of light can I then use Divine Bond to enhance that lance?

If I can, what happens when the spell expires? Does that count as the lance being destroyed?


RAW doesn't say you can't, and when the item is dismissed, it's not exactly destroyed. RAI, I'd rule that unless the Light Lance was made permanent, it wouldn't work, since the intent of Divine Bond is to enhance an artificial weapon.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
RAW doesn't say you can't, and when the item is dismissed, it's not exactly destroyed. RAI, I'd rule that unless the Light Lance was made permanent, it wouldn't work, since the intent of Divine Bond is to enhance an artificial weapon.

A light lance is a weapon like spell effect. Not an actual weapon.

Paladins weapon bond nowhere state they can use it on spells or spell effects.

If you cannot use a Paladins divine bond on a Fireball or Magic Missle or Spiritual Weapon spell (and you cannot) you can't with a Light Lance spell.


Gilfalas wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
RAW doesn't say you can't, and when the item is dismissed, it's not exactly destroyed. RAI, I'd rule that unless the Light Lance was made permanent, it wouldn't work, since the intent of Divine Bond is to enhance an artificial weapon.

A light lance is a weapon like spell effect. Not an actual weapon.

Paladins weapon bond nowhere state they can use it on spells or spell effects.

If you cannot use a Paladins divine bond on a Fireball or Magic Missle or Spiritual Weapon spell (and you cannot) you can't with a Light Lance spell.

It's a spell, and it's a weapon. The only requirement is that it is a weapon; the type is irrelevant.

RAI, I agree fully, but AFAIK, the reason why it doesn't work on actual spells the self is because they don't have an artificial weapon component. This spell does, and unless there is a FAQ/Errata to disprove it, it still functions as a weapon, and can still receive the bond.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
RAI, I agree fully, but AFAIK, the reason why it doesn't work on actual spells the self is because they don't have an artificial weapon component. This spell does, and unless there is a FAQ/Errata to disprove it, it still functions as a weapon, and can still receive the bond.

There is no artificial weapon component. The spell only has Verbal and Somatic components.

The Light Lance is a total and temporary effect of the spell. Just like a Wall of Fire, or Stone Skin or Orb of Acid. It is an evocation spell, not conjuration. It is nothing more than a magical energy effect brought into being from a spell.

Spells and their effects cannot be valid targets of a Paladins Weapon Bond, even if they are 'weapon like spells'.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

While it says it "acts as" a +1 holy lance, it nonetheless isn't one. Otherwise, it would say it temporarily creates a +1 holy lance.


Why doesn't that include acting as a lance for purpose of spells that target lances (/weapons generally)?
If it was meant to be limited to certain applications only, it would say 'acts as... for purposes of XYZ...', not an unlimited allowance.
Otherwise, nothing about Divine Bond is disallowing weapons made of light (permanent or not), or temporarily existing weapons (spell effect or not).

What happens when the spell expires? That lance is gone, same as if your cold iron longsword ceased to exist, and any buffs on it are now irrelevant. If you cast the spell again, it is a new spell, a new light lance that does not have the Divine Bond buff.

Silver Crusade

My concern with the spell expiring is that it will count as though the lance was destroyed, so I would not be able to Divine Bond agian for 30 days.

Gilfalas: Fire Ball, Orb of Acid, and Magic Missile are instantanious effects, Spiritual Weapon, Wall of Fire, Stone Skin, are not weapons you weild, and none of those spells create a weapon or effect that "acts as" a weapon. Light Lance does.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It says it acts as a weapon, not that it can be acted upon as a weapon. Note also that the effect says "lance of light," not "creates a lance."


Do you think that a Light Lance would be an appropriate target for a Greater Magic Weapon spell? If not, it stands to reason that it can't be a bonded weapon, either.

I'd say no.


TimrehIX wrote:
My concern with the spell expiring is that it will count as though the lance was destroyed, so I would not be able to Divine Bond agian for 30 days.

So it's probably not a good idea to do this regularly.


Quandary wrote:
TimrehIX wrote:
My concern with the spell expiring is that it will count as though the lance was destroyed, so I would not be able to Divine Bond agian for 30 days.
So it's probably not a good idea to do this regularly.

You can't destroy a weapon made of magic, and dispelling it does not count as being destroyed, it counts as being dispelled/dismissed.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The reason it can't be destroyed is because it's not really a weapon.

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