Unarmed in regard to Shields

[Iorthol]

I couldn't find an exact definition for unarmed. From what I can tell, being unarmed is lacking a weapon or natural weapon in your main hand and off hand slots.
Shields when used for bashing are considered martial weapons. It doesn't say shields count as weapons when not being used for bashing.

Would a character with a shield and no weapon be subject to the effects of things such as Catch Off Guard? (Aka would they be considered unarmed?)

[Dagon-XIII]

Just a wonder, what are you trying to do? Or are you just wanting the definition of unarmed.

[blackbloodtroll]

A shield is a weapon.

It counts as a weapon in all regards.

It threatens as a weapon.

A shield is a weapon.

[Pupsocket]

The OP is trying to use the unarmed=flat-footed part of Catch Off-Guard and finding it almost impossible.

[TGMaxMaxer]

TWF, Break Guard, Imp Disarm, Catch Off Guard. Lore warden rogue(or ninja). Sick moves. Available level 3, for 1d6 sneak.

[Pupsocket]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

TWF, Break Guard, Imp Disarm, Catch Off Guard. Lore warden rogue(or ninja). Sick moves. Available level 3, for 1d6 sneak.

Problem is, disarming your enemy might not make him unarmed.

[TGMaxMaxer]

If you can't make him unarmed by disarming him, then you can't use catch off guard at all.

Armor spikes, natural weapons, Imp unarmed strike, blade boots etc... will completely negate the catch off guard feat.

But in that case, there was never a way to get it anyways.

I was refering to making the enemy unarmed by taking away the weapons/shield that he is using at the moment, in order to hit him while he's flat footed.

[Claxon]

Yeah..most enemies are going to have something to keep them from being completely unarmed. It may not be very good, but they're going to have guantlets or armor spikes or some other piece of equipment so that they always threaten. Why? Because it's the same basic tactic that PCs will use over and over again. It's the same reason why every fighter has a weapon cord. It's 2 sp and even if you are disarmed you can recover your weapon as a swift action on your turn. Some things are just good tactical decisions that should never be bypassed.

[Weirdo]

Claxon wrote:

Some things are just good tactical decisions that should never be bypassed.

Which turns other, seemingly good tactical decisions into useless options.

[Claxon]

Weirdo wrote:

Claxon wrote:

Some things are just good tactical decisions that should never be bypassed.

Which turns other, seemingly good tactical decisions into useless options.

True, but that doesn't make it any less valid. It just means some choices are bad decisions.

[Kazaan]

Main-hand and Off-hand aren't "slots". There is no handedness in that regard in Pathfinder. You can have a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other and, if you have 3 iterative attacks, you can make up to 3 attacks with either weapon and both are considered main-hand attacks. You only have an off-hand weapon when you designate using TWF rules to make an off-hand attack in excess of your Bab limit, in which case you must designate which weapon is your off-hand (for the purpose of determining proper attack penalties).

That having been said, a shield is still a weapon and you're still considered 'armed' with a shield. The only weapons, really, that doesn't count for being armed by default is unarmed strike (without the IUS feat). If you're lacking IUS and have no other item wielded to attack with (weapon, shield capable of bashing, improvised weapon, etc.).

[Iorthol]

I was getting tripped up because in the wording for shield, it says it's a martial weapon when used to make shield bash attacks.
That wording is unfortunate because it implies that it is considered a weapons Only when it's being used to bash, thereby not being a weapon in any other moment, such as the moment when someone with Catch Off Guard is coming to hit you with a folding chair.

This came up because I have an orc that uses both hands to kill people with his heavy shield. Using the str½ and 150% power attack for two handing a 1h weapon.

[blackbloodtroll]

Shields are even listed on the Weapons chart.