Learn how awesome ancient secrets and fighting techniques can be when you get to learn what fits your character, instead of choosing from a present list...
With The Genius Guide to the Talented Monk you can make your monk so much more than flurry of blows and unarmed strikes...
I guess the only thing I can say is YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I first read this thread title as the Talented Mook...
Come to think of it, talented mooks could be fun, too...
The Genius Guide to the Talented Commoner. Is April first anytime soon?
now lets get started on More Monk TalentsAlready in playtesting. :)
Ki Bolt is proving to be waaaay more popular than its efficaciousness can justify. :)
Kame hame...awwww!!!
Ki Bolt is proving to be waaaay more popular than its efficaciousness can justify. :)
Kame hame...awwww!!!
Rei gun!
Ki Bolt is proving to be waaaay more popular than its efficaciousness can justify. :)Kame hame...awwww!!!Rei gun!
Hadoken!
Yep. I'm pretty sure that's what it is so popular...Hadoken!Ki Bolt is proving to be waaaay more popular than its efficaciousness can justify. :)Kame hame...awwww!!!Rei gun!
I assure you I have no idea what you are talking about, good sir...;)
For what it's worth, there's already this spell, ki arrow, that lets you do ranged attacks utilizing ki.
That's... not quite the same. On a side note, now I want to make a forbidden 10th-level spell...
Legendary Games already have a Hadouken-feat in their Way of Ki-pdf.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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So, I've started reading through this, and I just wanted to point out that a Human Talented Monk could theoretically start off at first level with 7 combat feats (1 human, 1 1st-level, 3 monk edges, 2 monk talents). This makes the Talented Monk better than the standard Fighter as far as feats go. Then, for the next two levels, you could have another 3 or 4 combat feats at each level. That's... that's a lot of feats. I know it's balanced out by the slower BAB progression, but dang.
Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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So, I've started reading through this, and I just wanted to point out that a Human Talented Monk could theoretically start off at first level with 7 combat feats (1 human, 1 1st-level, 3 monk edges, 2 monk talents). This makes the Talented Monk better than the standard Fighter as far as feats go. Then, for the next two levels, you could have another 3 or 4 combat feats at each level. That's... that's a lot of feats. I know it's balanced out by the slower BAB progression, but dang.
True... but.
First of all, none of the feats you took at 1st level can require even a +1 base attack bonus (except if there are 2 on the special monk list you can access with talents -- so maybe 2 out of your 7). That makes it a little less attractive.
Second, and much more importantly, you have no armor proficiency, no shield proficiency, no special defensive abilities, and your weapon list is club, crossbow (light or
heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, shortspear, short sword, sling, and spear.
Now you can burn feats to get better options -- but then you aren't doing anything every fighter doesn't get already.
In short, all of the talented Monks good stuff, from Wisdom to defense to flurry of blows to stunning fist, has to eat away at that list. It's not just the lower base attack, it's the fact a fighter has 5 armor and shield proficiencies and all martial weapons.
We playtested the "mega-combat-feat" monk, and found it substantially underpowered compared to a human fighter at every level.
Now SOME combat feats are nice, but since edges become more and more rare as you get to mid levels, if you want ki pools, the better attack bonus, good unarmed strikes and defense, and so on, you need to grab those early on.
Put another way, most of the abilities a monk normally gets at low level are already as good or better than a feat, and they get a LOT of them.
What happens if a fighter takes one level of mega-combat-feat monk?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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What happens if a fighter takes one level of mega-combat-feat monk?
THAT is a good point. A standard Fighter, let's say level 4, could take a single level in this and get 5 feats, only losing out on +1 BAB. He'd meet the prerequisites for all of them, and two of them he wouldn't HAVE to meet the prereqs.
What happens if a fighter takes one level of mega-combat-feat monk?THAT is a good point. A standard Fighter, let's say level 4, could take a single level in this and get 5 feats, only losing out on +1 BAB. He'd meet the prerequisites for all of them, and two of them he wouldn't HAVE to meet the prereqs.
A level 1 fighter can already take 1 level of monk and get 3 feats (improved unarmed strike, stunning fist, a bonus feat) plus flurry of blows and a monks ac bonus when unarmored.
The drawbacks are the same as they are in any pathfinder multiclassing situation, bab/hd loss, loss of advancement in class abilities (qualifying for fighter feats, scaling bonuses like bravery and weapon training) and favored class bonuses. And while yes you can get a considerable boost from being able to select a bunch of feats you are also giving up a fair amount to do it, and it isnt wildly better then what you can already do with multiclassing.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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What happens if a fighter takes one level of mega-combat-feat monk?THAT is a good point. A standard Fighter, let's say level 4, could take a single level in this and get 5 feats, only losing out on +1 BAB. He'd meet the prerequisites for all of them, and two of them he wouldn't HAVE to meet the prereqs.A level 1 fighter can already take 1 level of monk and get 3 feats (improved unarmed strike, stunning fist, a bonus feat) plus flurry of blows and a monks ac bonus when unarmored.
The drawbacks are the same as they are in any pathfinder multiclassing situation, bab/hd loss, loss of advancement in class abilities (qualifying for fighter feats, scaling bonuses like bravery and weapon training) and favored class bonuses. And while yes you can get a considerable boost from being able to select a bunch of feats you are also giving up a fair amount to do it, and it isnt wildly better then what you can already do with multiclassing.
I agree with you there, I'm just making the point that the ability to forfeit IUS, Stunning Fist, Flurry of Blows and the AC bonus for four other feats could definitely lead to abuse. I might write up an example later today to compare it. I'd bet that I can make a Fighter/Talented Monk that can outperform a Zen Archer of the same level at every level, and I think most people would agree that the Zen Archer is extremely powerful as-is.
IUS, Stunning Fist and a bonus feat are fairly constrained options. What are the limitations in Talented Monk? Even if only three of those feats are "basically what I might like as a Fighter anyway," that's potentially quite advantageous. Mind you, that would be less the fault of the Talented Monk than the lack of really powerful options in the Fighter class to delay. But nonetheless.
Does anyone with the book want to try to break this for a level 6 Fighter/Monk?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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IUS, Stunning Fist and a bonus feat are fairly constrained options. What are the limitations in Talented Monk? Even if only three of those feats are "basically what I might like as a Fighter anyway," that's potentially quite advantageous. Mind you, that would be less the fault of the Talented Monk than the lack of really powerful options in the Fighter class to delay. But nonetheless.
Does anyone with the book want to try to break this for a level 6 Fighter/Monk?
Will do in about a half hour. :)
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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You know what? I tried to break it, and I honestly can't. The reason is, you really do have to invest a lot of your monk abilities into making things work, and the bonus monk feats for a 1st-level Talented Monk just aren't that super.
I was trying to break an archer build, but the only archery feats you can take with the bonus feats are Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Far Shot, and any archer worth anything will already have Point Blank and Precise at 1st level, and won't use Far Shot.
I wanted to take Flurry of Blows, but you have to invest in the Bows training first, and to do that you have to have proficiency, so you have to take at least one level of Fighter first. If you want to use that Flurry power in armor, you need to invest in that as well.
I was worried it would be super broken, but honestly it's really not.
Edit: The best I was able to do was get Rapid Shot and Flurry of Blows by level 2, which means you're taking 3 shots per round, but at a -4 to each one, so it's really not that impressive.
hurray, evidence to prove an excellent product
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Owen sure can take something apart and put it back together again without breaking it.
Owen sure can take something apart and put it back together again without breaking it.
No kidding. It looks like the wave of the future is going to be customizable classes. I'm going to have to come up with more ideas for the ones I'm working on. Hopefully, a Paladin/Cavalier cross is coming, and made customizable.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Owen sure can take something apart and put it back together again without breaking it.No kidding. It looks like the wave of the future is going to be customizable classes. I'm going to have to come up with more ideas for the ones I'm working on. Hopefully, a Paladin/Cavalier cross is coming, and made customizable.
If you're looking for class-class combinations, I would suggest checking out our Multiclass Archetypes MCAs
But as far as customizable classes go, I definitely look forward to seeing more like the Talented Monk!
I think that, as a word of advice to other class-creators, it would be better to work out more customizations if you're going to compete with SGG. I myself am working on customizable Anti-Paladins ( all three alignments! ), with Sneak Attack ability to replace the full 7 uses of Smite Good ( or Smite Good or Smite Blind in mine ); I'm not sure how many adventures you're going to need 7 Smite Good ( or for Pals, Smite Evil ) in one day, so give him some Sneak Attack ability . . . .
Anyhow, great product, but I doubt I'll use it; not out of issues of quality, but simple that I don't tend to play Monks. . . .
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Owen sure can take something apart and put it back together again without breaking it.
I blush!
No kidding. It looks like the wave of the future is going to be customizable classes. I'm going to have to come up with more ideas for the ones I'm working on. Hopefully, a Paladin/Cavalier cross is coming, and made customizable.
The Genius Guide to the Talented Cavalier (including samurai) is in design as we speak. (Seriously, I'm in a hotel room at SoonerCon, taking a break from parties and appearance, to work on that book -- and this forum post is a break from that writing).
I have looked at comining cavalier and paladin into one book, and I don't think it is going to happen. However there will be a section discussing how to mix fighter and cavalier (similar to the rogue/ninja/monk discussion in Talented Monk), and I suspect a similar section in Talented Paladin talking about both fighter and cavalier combos.
But as far as customizable classes go, I definitely look forward to seeing more like the Talented Monk!
I'm sure most people have seen them, but just to be sure, in addition to The Genius Guide to the Talented Monk, we have already released The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter (and it's follow-up, the Genius Guide to More Fighter Talents) and
The Genius Guide to the Talented Rogue (and it's follow-up, the Genius Guide to More Rogue Talents)And as that pattern suggests, The Genius Guide to More Monk Talents is in development following its first round of playtesting. :D
Of course, now if you ever release a Genius Guide to the Talented X, and no followup More X Talents, you will have to run away in shame to a place no one has ever heard of, and live among strangers.
Of course, now if you ever release a Genius Guide to the Talented X, and no followup More X Talents, you will have to run away in shame to a place no one has ever heard of, and live among strangers.
I tried to save you, Owen, but I failed. :(
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I have looked at comining cavalier and paladin into one book, and I don't think it is going to happen. However there will be a section discussing how to mix fighter and cavalier (similar to the rogue/ninja/monk discussion in Talented Monk), and I suspect a similar section in Talented Paladin talking about both fighter and cavalier combos.
Possibly maybe include something for the Templar class you guys released? I really like that class and wish there was more material for it. I've been working on my own archetype for it for my custom campaign world, but 'official' material is always welcome.
I love how good each of the "Talented X" classes are and will buy them as they come out. Also a break down of each as they apply to the Genius Archetypes would also be a good thing. Talented Monk (Youxia) or Talented Rogue (Masked Adventurer) ftw
Can I suggest the Genius Guides to the Talented Gunslinger and Talented Spell-less Ranger?
I second, third, and fourth this sentiment.
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Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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Talented Gunslinger is certainly going to happen.
Talented ranger will happen, and will give you the option of an effective ranger with no spells. I don't currently plan to grab material specifically from Spell-Less Ranger (except maybe the feats I wrote for that class myself), but I could be talked into it. Maybe.
But the Talented Ranger I have in mind could create a very effective ranger with no need for spells, and I suspect you'd find the end result pretty similar, even if I get there via a different route.
If I had the hubris to suggest new written-up talents and edges for The Genius Guide To Yet More Monk Talents, where would I post them?