Combat is ongoing, everyone has rolled their d20 to see when they go.
The big nasty gets critical hit, and deafening critical goes off (we'll say for sake of argument he got thwacked in the jewels so hard he can't hear, because he's a big nasty and as players we don't like him).
Does the initiative penalty from his newly acquired nutshot induced deafness immediately knock him back in the initiative order?
OR
Does it not apply yet, and only applies if he lives and down the road gets in another fight while he's still deaf?
Short version... Do initiative check penalties/initiative penalties apply to checks already made, and currently in effect? Can a foe be knocked back in initiative order during an ongoing combat?
This question could also apply to most things that effect initiative, certain dex reductions, etc
I think anything that affects you in a combat should apply those effects immediately during the combat where the condition begins. All DEX modifiers and other initiative modifiers should be immediately applied.
I sometimes overlook this on minor changes to DEX during a battle, just for convenience, but that's more laziness on my part rather than trying to follow the rules.
At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll, as well as other modifiers from feats, spells, and other effects. Characters act in order, counting down from the highest result to the lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).
So, changes to DEX or Initiative (from, say, deafness) do not apply after initiative has been rolled.
So what you're saying is that you can voluntarily change your initiative as much as you want, but specific negative effects such as losing DEX are incapable of changing your initiative?
Seems to me, specific trumps general. So the general rule that you act in the same order is overridden by having a specific effect applied to you that alters your initiative.
I've played with houserules that init order is modified by ongoing changes, but I don't see any specific exceptions to the start-of-combat initiative-lock. It's too bad too because my cloud subdomain instant deafness would rock.
So what you're saying is that you can voluntarily change your initiative as much as you want, but specific negative effects such as losing DEX are incapable of changing your initiative?
Seems to me, specific trumps general. So the general rule that you act in the same order is overridden by having a specific effect applied to you that alters your initiative.
Initiative modifiers are only applied when you roll initiative, as they apply to a die roll.
Deafness specifies that it imposes a penalty on initiative CHECKS, not to initiative in general. Similarly, the rules for Initiative state that it is a DEX check; once you've made the check, alterations to your Dexterity don't do anything. The check has already been made.
You may houserule as you wish, but the rules are clear on this matter.
Deafened: A deafened character cannot hear. He takes a –4 penalty on initiative checks.
How Combat Works
Combat is cyclical; everybody acts in turn in a regular cycle of rounds. Combat follows this sequence:1. When combat begins, all combatants roll initiative.
2. Determine which characters are aware of their opponents. These characters can act during a surprise round. If all the characters are aware of their opponents, proceed with normal rounds. See the surprise section for more information.
3. After the surprise round (if any), all combatants are ready to being the first normal round of combat.
4. Combatants act in initiative order (highest to lowest).
5. When everyone has had a turn, the next round begins with the combatant with the highest initiative, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends.
You make an initiative check to start combat. It's not a reoccurring thing within the same battle. Once you've made your check, it's set. You don't adjust initiative once it's been set for a combat, unless a participant voluntarily changes their order.