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To seriously get back on-topic, I never got a response to my question if playing my dryad-elf ("drylf") druid as being suspicious of axe-wielders and distrustful of humans and goblins due to her personal history was "racist."
So I'll just instead provide my perspective on the appropriateness of playing a character who has some racist ("speciesist") or sexist traits.
No, I don't see a problem with it if it is handled in a mature and reasonable manner. But that's also how I see most aspects of the game, not just this one.
My human witch is a womanizer. That is a specific aspect of his personality that I have built in from the very first draft of his backstory. I have based his character on a very specific real-life person that I know (and like).
I play him as a womanizer. He pursues sexual gratification just as he pursues alcohol, drugs and gambling. In fact the most important part of his personality is that he is a dopamine addict and he pursues addictive behaviors to his own detriment.
I personally am not a womanizer and never have been. I've been married to my college sweetheart for almost 30 years. I also rarely drink and don't do drugs. I've watched how addictive behaviors have destroyed the lives of people close to me.
But that just gives me insight into how my witch's behavior is counter-productive in game, and I play it that way. I very specifically try to play up the positive and negative aspects of my witch. He is highly charismatic and I play him that way. He is the life of the party and has done things like organize celebrations for the entire town he lives in. But he is constantly in trouble due to his weaknesses.
So when he is being a sexist pig in a strip club, is that "bad role playing?"
I don't think so. I think it's being true to his character. And as I said, he is based on real people I know.
I've never seen this. Well, unless hatred of orcs counts.
You'll recall that houstonderek's (CE) elf wizard Fiachra was racist against everyone except elves, because he'd been raised in an insular, elitist stronghold. Houstonderek himself is not at all racist, nor was his other (CG) character Cadogan. I did not see this aspect of one (1) of his PCs to be a "problem," I did not feel it made HD a "douchebag," and it certainly didn't make me kick him out of the game.
Was I wrong? I don't think so.
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I've never seen this. Well, unless hatred of orcs counts.You'll recall that houstonderek's (CE) elf wizard Fiachra was racist against everyone except elves, because he'd been raised in an insular, elitist stronghold. Houstonderek himself is not at all racist, nor was his other (CG) character Cadogan. I did not see this aspect of one (1) of his PCs to be a "problem," I did not feel it made HD a "douchebag," and it certainly didn't make me kick him out of the game.
Was I wrong? I don't think so.
I would have been a good familiar.
::clutches blankets::
DIRT!
... and speaking of races, what exactly ARE you, anyway?
Dirty.
Yes, I did mean that. But I also meant that a "right" is something that is debatable, and always has been debatable, until it is codified into law. There is a concept of "natural rights" such as those mentioned in the US's Declaration of Independence, but those are generally abstractions such as "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". It is rare that someone will claim that a pre-surgery elementary school transgendered girl using a girl's bathroom is a "natural right." Those are rights that the courts decide on a daily basis. And sometimes that decision is very difficult and BOTH SIDES have valid points in...Since transgendered have all the same rights everyone else does, I am guessing AD meant preferential treatment under the law not stripping away the rights all humans have. And preferential treatment is highly debatable. Being against preferential treatment is hardly "hate".Honestly i can't see how being against transgendered rights can be based in anything other than hate.Yeah. I actually have a liberal gay friend who I recently learn is against transgendered rights. Was unusual to find that out, but unusually enough, hate as a concept seems to stretch beyond concepts like race, gender, politics, and sexuality. Anyone and everyone is capable of hate, and of love. Let's not forget that :)LOL, what an interesting thread. I particularly loved the "liberals can't be sexist" comment.
I haven't laughed that hard in a long, long, long time.
Oh, one other thing.
Describing being "against transgendered rights" as "hate" is a big, big part of the problem in our political discourse. Too many tribes scream about "hate" whenever any other non-tribe member does not agree with their own ideologically motivated beliefs.
"Hate" is a strong word, and really should only be used to describe, you know, actual "hate." Not simple disagreement.
Well preferential treatment would be something different. As for the transgender girl using a girl's bathroom: I just found out that this is actually a current event.
If the person does identify as the gender opposite to that of their body, I wouldn't call it preferential treatment to let them live their lives as the gender they identify as. I grant that there are arguments in such a case against it that are not based on or off hate, and that the people making those arguments do not hate transgendered people. In such cases it's lack of understanding for the position of transgendered people.You wouldn't call homosexual marriage preferential treatment, just because "homosexuals have the same right as everyone else, to marry someone of the opposite gender".
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I've played the "racist" character before. It was a one time thing but I played one.
She was human, of noble birth, who say her mother brutally rapped in front of her eyes when she was very young and then killed in a horrific manner by non human raiders. She was of privilege and from the start of the game she harbored a very strong dislike to all none humans.
She had a low wisdom as as she leveled I put points in her Wis not her core scores of St or Dex or Con as a fighter. By doing this she softened to none humans and began to understand them and not blame all of them for this horrible mis-deed she saw. In time she learned to care about them too.
To me this made it more realistic as you can learn not to hate or have a dislike for something
If the person does identify as the gender opposite to that of their body, I wouldn't call it preferential treatment to let them live their lives as the gender they identify as. I grant that there are arguments in such a case against it that are not based on or off hate, and that the people making those arguments do not hate transgendered people. In such cases it's lack of understanding for the position of transgendered people.
You wouldn't call homosexual marriage preferential treatment, just because "homosexuals have the same right as everyone else, to marry someone of the opposite gender".
Au contraire my friend. I have seen exactly that argument presented many, many times. And it is, in fact, quite true. Homosexuals always HAVE HAD the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex, and heterosexuals always HAVE BEEN just as unable to marry someone of the same sex. The problem isn't that the rights are different, it's that the DESIRES are different. Having the right to do something you don't want to do is just as meaningless as being denied the right to do something you don't want to do. What prior laws have denied is the "right" of homosexuals to marry who they WANT.
But guess what, if I want to marry TWO women, I can't do that either. Just as even now a man can't marry TWO other men.
But I suspect you'll see that change too.
The fundamental problem is that what some people see as "preferential treatment" is seen by other people as "a fundamental right."
Back to the trangendered elementary school issue. I would suggest that many people opposed to the final ruling are completely aware of and sympathize with the position of the transgendered girl.
They just STILL DON'T WANT penises in their little girl's bathrooms.
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Is it just me, or is the whole "this fantasy character started out as a racist, but learned to see everyone as equal" thing starting to get a little cliche? I personally thought it was stale after about 1,000 pages of Legolas and Gimli.
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Is it just me, or is the whole "the character started out as a racist, but learned to see everyone as equal" thing starting to get a little cliche? I personally thought it was stale after about 1,000 pages of Legolas and Gimli.
Well, in some respects it's been cliche since Huck and Jim rode that raft down the river...
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Back to the trangendered elementary school issue. I would suggest that many people opposed to the final ruling are completely aware of and sympathize with the position of the transgendered girl.
They just STILL DON'T WANT penises in their little girl's bathrooms.
Given that it's a girls' bathroom, not a boys' bathroom, so their little girls will never see the transgender girl's boy parts, that objection doesn't seem particularly plausible.
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They just STILL DON'T WANT penises in their little girl's bathrooms.
That's why we need UNISEX BATHROOMS FOR ALL!
Vive le Galt!
Given that it's a girls' bathroom, not a boys' bathroom, so their little girls will never see the transgender girl's boy parts, that objection doesn't seem particularly plausible.Back to the trangendered elementary school issue. I would suggest that many people opposed to the final ruling are completely aware of and sympathize with the position of the transgendered girl.
They just STILL DON'T WANT penises in their little girl's bathrooms.
Jessica, perhaps you don't understand the ruling. The ruling was that the little pre-surgery transgendered "girl" still fully equipped with a functioning penis was allowed to use the girl's bathroom.
The position the other side took was to allow the girl to use a separate bathroom, but her parents argued that would make her the target of ridicule.
Is it just me, or is the whole "this fantasy character started out as a racist, but learned to see everyone as equal" thing starting to get a little cliche? I personally thought it was stale after about 1,000 pages of Legolas and Gimli.
1000 pages devoted to just those two? Must've been the extended edition I never got into.
Anyways, yes, it is a cliché. Its also one of the ways to do it so that the whole party doesn't hate you for treating them/important npcs like crap, which is sort of important. I'm sure there are a few other ways to do it, but I'm not keen on how they turn out.
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They just STILL DON'T WANT penises in their little girl's bathrooms.That's why we need UNISEX BATHROOMS FOR ALL!
Vive le Galt!
Actually I'm totally fine with that. But then my attitudes about gender issues are somewhat... liberal.
Actually I'm totally fine with that.
I suspect that 80% of the men on the planet are probably fine with that. However, 100% of the women demand separate facilities, so there you have it.
Jessica, perhaps you don't understand the ruling.
I would think the stalls would help. That might be a slight difference to a boy's room.
The ruling was that the little pre-surgery transgendered "girl" still fully equipped with a functioning penis was allowed to use the girl's bathroom.
I think the point is that ladies' rooms have little personal stalls for everyone with advanced floor-to-ceiling soundproof privacy partitions and double deadbolts and other amenities which people like you and I know not what.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Sin.
Jessica, perhaps you don't understand the ruling.I would think the stalls would help. That might be a slight difference to a boy's room.
Accidents happen MrSin. "Oops, didn't mean to leave the door unlocked!"
Boys bathrooms have stalls too, and I've been walked in on many times over the course of my life. Doors don't lock properly, people don't pay attention, whatever.
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Actually I'm totally fine with that.I suspect that 80% of the men on the planet are probably fine with that. However, 100% of the women demand separate facilities, so there you have it.
I have to admit, I'm a guy with a pretty healthy libido, but ogling women in the bathroom does not appeal to me in the least.
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Given that it's a girls' bathroom, not a boys' bathroom, so their little girls will never see the transgender girl's boy parts, that objection doesn't seem particularly plausible.Back to the trangendered elementary school issue. I would suggest that many people opposed to the final ruling are completely aware of and sympathize with the position of the transgendered girl.
They just STILL DON'T WANT penises in their little girl's bathrooms.
Jessica, perhaps you don't understand the ruling. The ruling was that the little pre-surgery transgendered "girl" still fully equipped with a functioning penis was allowed to use the girl's bathroom.
The position the other side took was to allow the girl to use a separate bathroom, but her parents argued that would make her the target of ridicule.
Nope, understand it quite well. Reread what I wrote.
Nope, understand it quite well. Reread what I wrote.Given that it's a girls' bathroom, not a boys' bathroom, so their little girls will never see the transgender girl's boy parts, that objection doesn't seem particularly plausible.Back to the trangendered elementary school issue. I would suggest that many people opposed to the final ruling are completely aware of and sympathize with the position of the transgendered girl.
They just STILL DON'T WANT penises in their little girl's bathrooms.
Jessica, perhaps you don't understand the ruling. The ruling was that the little pre-surgery transgendered "girl" still fully equipped with a functioning penis was allowed to use the girl's bathroom.
The position the other side took was to allow the girl to use a separate bathroom, but her parents argued that would make her the target of ridicule.
Then you are assuming that there will never be any possibility of any sort of accidental viewing of the boy parts.
I simply don't agree that is a guarantee that many parents would accept.
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Also, the scare quotes around the word girl sort of undermine the notion of the objectors having sympathy for her.
I have to admit, I'm a guy with a pretty healthy libido, but ogling women in the bathroom does not appeal to me in the least.
Nor I, but it wouldn't particularly bother me to have them in there, either. The thing is, I have never spoken to a woman who wasn't 100% convinved that all males urinate on the floor and smear the walls with feces, so there's no way they'd share facilities, ogling aside.
Boys bathrooms have stalls too, and I've been walked in on many times over the course of my life. Doors don't lock properly, people don't pay attention, whatever.
Interesting. We were just talking about this the other night over drinks.
Neither I nor any of my female friends have been walked in on in a public women's restroom. *Individual* restrooms, yes. But not multi-stall ones.
So I see your anecdote of being walked in on, and raise you five people's anecdotes.
The likelihood of it happening seems like an edge case, not something to base a ruling on.
Also, the scare quotes around the word girl sort of undermine the notion of the objectors having sympathy for her.
They are not "scare quotes" they were a shorthand way of distinguishing which direction the transgendering was occuring.
Your inference does not mean there was an implication Jessica.
Boys bathrooms have stalls too, and I've been walked in on many times over the course of my life. Doors don't lock properly, people don't pay attention, whatever.Interesting. We were just talking about this the other night over drinks.
Neither I nor any of my female friends have been walked in on in a public women's restroom. *Individual* restrooms, yes. But not multi-stall ones.
So I see your anecdote of being walked in on, and raise you five people's anecdotes.
The likelihood of it happening seems like an edge case, not something to base a ruling on.
A single transgender child in an entire large city's elementary school population is an "edge case" Jessica, yet they based a ruling on it. My dad and brother are/were lawyers. Edge cases matter.
I have to admit, I'm a guy with a pretty healthy libido, but ogling women in the bathroom does not appeal to me in the least.Nor I, but it wouldn't particularly bother me to have them in there, either. The thing is, I have never spoken to a woman who wasn't 100% convinved that all males urinate on the floor and smear the walls with feces, so there's no way they'd share facilities, ogling aside.
No doubt.
No doubt.
As I'm unable to read faces or tone on Teh Interwebz, I'll assume that's an I agree "no doubt," and not a whatever, you're an idiot "no doubt."
No doubt.As I'm unable to read faces or tone on Teh Interwebz, I'll assume that's an I agree "no doubt," and not a whatever, you're an idiot "no doubt."
LOL, yep, it's an "I concur".
Thanks. One of the real limitations of the modern age.
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Goblin bathrooms are, indeed, unisex and, despite what you racists might think, immaculately clean.
Goblin bathrooms are, indeed, unisex and, despite what you racists might think, immaculately clean.
Robert Heinlein famously observed that you can tell the level of civilization by how clean public bathrooms are...
Goblin bathrooms are, indeed, unisex and, despite what you racists might think, immaculately clean.
What about bisexual goblins? That's the opposite of "unisex," right?
Goblin bathrooms are, indeed, unisex and, despite what you racists might think, immaculately clean.What about bisexual goblins? That's the opposite of "unisex," right?
No, the opposite of "unisex" is "polysexual".
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All goblins are polymorphously perverse, if it helps.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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My dad and brother are/were lawyers.
And that has what to do with the price of tea in China?
Reminds me of an experience my wife had (who is a lawyer), arguing with a non-lawyer about something within my wife's area of expertise. After clearly being beaten, the other woman said to my wife in a tone that implied it was relevant and mattered "well, I sleep with a lawyer." (her husband, if it matters).
To which my wife replied, "so do I."
Sorry, but your father and brother's accomplishments are even less relevant to this thread than this tangent. Being related to a lawyer or having sex with a lawyer or even seeing a lawyer on tv does not in and of itself mean you are a lawyer or have any legal training.
My dad and brother are/were lawyers.And that has what to do with the price of tea in China?
Reminds me of an experience my wife had (who is a lawyer), arguing with a non-lawyer about something within my wife's area of expertise. After clearly being beaten, the other woman said to my wife in a tone that implied it was relevant and mattered "well, I sleep with a lawyer." (her husband, if it matters).
To which my wife replied, "so do I."
Sorry, but your father and brother's accomplishments are even less relevant to this thread than this tangent. Being related to a lawyer or having sex with a lawyer or seeing a lawyer on tv does not in and of itself mean you are a lawyer or have any legal knowledge.
In the context of understanding what the law cares about, I submit that they do matter. My dad very much wanted me to be an attorney as well, so I worked in his law office quite a bit while getting my physics degree.
However, I'll just stand by my more compelling argument that edge cases must matter since the case in question here was an "edge case" itself.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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In the context of understanding what the law cares about, I submit that they do matter. My dad very much wanted me to be an attorney as well, so I worked in his law office quite a bit while getting my physics degree.However, I'll just stand by my more compelling argument that edge cases must matter since the case in question here was an "edge case" itself.
Wait...because your Dad is a lawyer and wanted you to be a lawyer, that gives extra weight to your opinion? Did your Dad write your post or review it for you? Do you have a psychic link? Did his drive to make you a lawyer include teaching you law?
I guess since this is somehow relevant, I'll see if my kids want to chime in. Given that both their parents are lawyers, they probably know at least as much as you about the law.
In the context of understanding what the law cares about, I submit that they do matter. My dad very much wanted me to be an attorney as well, so I worked in his law office quite a bit while getting my physics degree.However, I'll just stand by my more compelling argument that edge cases must matter since the case in question here was an "edge case" itself.
Wait...because your Dad is a lawyer and wanted you to be a lawyer, that gives extra weight to your opinion? Did your Dad write your post or review it for you? Do you have a psychic link? Did his drive to make you a lawyer include teaching you law?
I guess since this is somehow relevant, I'll see if my kids want to chime in. Given that both their parents are lawyers, they probably know at least as much as you about the law.
LOL, you think this tangent is going to make my argument about the case being an edge case any less true?
Go ahead, chase that wild goose.
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I have to admit, I'm a guy with a pretty healthy libido, but ogling women in the bathroom does not appeal to me in the least.Nor I, but it wouldn't particularly bother me to have them in there, either. The thing is, I have never spoken to a woman who wasn't 100% convinved that all males urinate on the floor and smear the walls with feces, so there's no way they'd share facilities, ogling aside.
TBH, most of the female bathrooms i had to walk in (to hold my girlfirend's stuff were far messier then men's bathrooms. I will not go into details.
Also, i worked in a Hyatt Regencuy in Belgrade for almost a year as a waiter, and when you passed by the female locker room, if the door was ajar, it SMELLED. It could be an exception of course, but i dunno.
Hama, I worked at a large hotel once and had to clean up restrooms. Without going into details I would say that there was a definite difference in cleaning mens vs womens restrooms. I don't think either was any more pleasant than the other, but they were definitely different.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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LOL, you think this tangent is going to make my argument about the case being an edge case any less true?Go ahead, chase that wild goose.
No, I don't really care about the tangent or the original topic (racists/misogynistic PCs, as opposed to transgendered individuals in the real world), but always enjoy taking the opportunity to point and laugh at something ridiculous.
No, I don't really care about the tangent or the original topic (racists/misogynistic PCs, as opposed to transgendered individuals in the real world), but always enjoy taking the opportunity to point and laugh at something ridiculous.
LOL, you think this tangent is going to make my argument about the case being an edge case any less true?Go ahead, chase that wild goose.
... regardless of its relevance to the point of the discussion.
Well, at least you're honest about it.
My dad and brother are/were lawyers.And that has what to do with the price of tea in China?
Reminds me of an experience my wife had (who is a lawyer), arguing with a non-lawyer about something within my wife's area of expertise. After clearly being beaten, the other woman said to my wife in a tone that implied it was relevant and mattered "well, I sleep with a lawyer." (her husband, if it matters).
To which my wife replied, "so do I."
Sorry, but your father and brother's accomplishments are even less relevant to this thread than this tangent. Being related to a lawyer or having sex with a lawyer or even seeing a lawyer on tv does not in and of itself mean you are a lawyer or have any legal training.
I agree my mom is an investigative reporter and my dad is a retired teacher, so what is my profession? heavy equipment operator for a landscape company.
what does that mean? zilch, doesn't further any argument. i knew a guy in seattle that was a third generation landscaper, he could get a job at any landscape company just by saying "my dad and grandpa are such and such" and get a job as a foreman like that!, he was the worst most incompetent foreman i ever had. so go ahead brag about how you're related to this or that doesn't mean you know a thing about being a lawyer unless you spend those 8+ years in school busting your ass. now if you want to talk shop about physics, i'll definitely give you the benefit of the doubt, but don't paint yourself as an "expert" in lawyering because your dad and brother are.
i have two brothers that are directors, that doesn't mean i'm an expert in directing, i'm not, at all, but they couldn't build a thirty foot tall wall that is over 2,000 feet long, which i have. if you drive by a wall,patio, fire pit or paver driveway in the upper midwest or pacific northwest chances are i either excavated it or built it, even worked on bill gates house, and the lead singer for queensryche and duff mckagen from GnR.